The History of the Mt Gox Hack: Bitcoin's Biggest Heist

Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500.

Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500. submitted by Redditcoin to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500.

Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500. submitted by mvea to technology [link] [comments]

Bitcoin mentioned around Reddit: Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500. /r/technology

Bitcoin mentioned around Reddit: Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500. /technology submitted by BitcoinAllBot to BitcoinAll [link] [comments]

Years after Mt. Gox crashed, CEO could net hundreds of millions of dollars - Creditors to be paid out at April 2014's ~$440 per Bitcoin, not Nov. 2017's ~$6,500.

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
Despite the fact that he oversaw the period when Mt. Gox went from the world's largest Bitcoin exchange to a bankrupt and damaged company, CEO Mark Karpelès could stand to profit hundreds of millions of dollars.
According to The Wall Street Journal, because the value of claims by people who had bitcoins stored at the Tokyo-based site are calculated in the April 2014 exchange rate between bitcoins and Japanese yen, those creditors may miss out on Bitcoin's meteoric rise over the last year.
He's also the CEO of Tibanne, the company that now "Mostly owns" Mt. Gox, and has a cache of 200,000 bitcoins according to WSJ. So if that pool ends up being used to pay out claims, creditors fear Karpelès may get to do so at 2014 rates instead of 2017 rates.
After the site went bankrupt in March 2014, Karpelès told the public and a Japanese bankruptcy court that he had suddenly discovered that cache of 200,000 bitcoins.
As Ars reported in March 2014, Mt. Gox said previously that it had lost 750,000 bitcoins belonging to customers and more than 100,000 bitcoins of its own money.
At current exchange rates, 750,000 bitcoins are worth nearly $5 billion, at about $6,500 per bitcoin.
Summary Source | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Bitcoin#1 Karpelès#2 Mt.#3 Gox#4 creditor#5
Post found in /mtgoxinsolvency, /technology, /pancakepalpatine, /TheColorIsOrange and /SkydTech.
NOTICE: This thread is for discussing the submission topic. Please do not discuss the concept of the autotldr bot here.
submitted by autotldr to autotldr [link] [comments]

Bitcoin is Golden.

Bitcoin is Golden.
Blatant price guessing here, based on the golden ratio:

(log price)
Approximate previous highs: $32, $1000, $20K.
Approximate ratios (first derivative): 33 (1000/32) and 20 (20K/1000).
Approximate second derivative: 33/20 = 1/1.6 (or 1/phi for idiots like me).
If this holds, the next first derivative will be 20/1.6 = 12.5.
Then $20K x 12.5 = $250K.

(linear time)
Approximate dates of previous highs: May2011, Dec2013, Dec2017.
Approximate time spans between: 2.5yr, 4yr.
Approximate ratio: 1.6 (phi, or close enough lol).
If this holds, 4yr x 1.6 = 6.4yr
Dec2017 + 6.4yr = Apr2024, a few months before the next expected halving.

If this is true, the next top should be around $250K around Apr2024, violating expectations for that halving just like this one lol. (Personally, I think the top will likely be closer to the halving, but still before it. Possible reasons for this, beside the obvious, include the fact that the cryptomarket peak was a few weeks after the bitcoin peak - relative local market forces could cause the date to be other than the expected - and the fact that 1.6 is less than actual phi, lol.)

Just a guess: Smart money will "sell the news" at the time of the next halving, liquidating all the retail FOMO longs that anticipate the halving and the increase in the stock-to-flow ratio. Those liquidations will crash the market, eventually resulting in a relatively shallow bottoming in 2026 of around $20K, at which point the next halving will result in market action much like 2016-2017. The golden cycles of a natural market and the fixed 4 year cycles of bitcoin halvings are fundamentally at odds with each other, as are the dramatic changes in bitcoin due to the halvings. In nature, such disagreeing cycles find resonant behaviors that allow different parts to occasionally line up even while they are dissonant and chaotic at other times (think planetary orbits, lol). It is likely that, if bitcoin survives and remains dominant, such resonances will become common and studied, while it is similarly likely that if the cryptomarket in general survives and remains relevant, similar frequencies, along with a much great set of market golden cycles, will become fundamental to longterm market structure.

imho



PS, if the pattern above holds, which it is unlikely to do given so many competing currencies, bitcoin will next peak at $1.9M in Jul2034 (leaving it far below the expected stock-to-flow "fair value" at that point). But again, such massive golden cycles are much more likely to be much more relevant for the cryptocurrency market cap as whole than for bitcoin alone over such large and chaos-promoting time spans. And again, imho.

PPS, I think we will see a mini-peak sometime in 2022 between $40K and $90K, followed by the aforementioned top, somewhat like a spread out version of what happened in 2013. Alternatively, we may see two mini peaks, one in 2021 around $20-25K, with another bouncing off both $100K and the "fair value" line in Dec2022-Mar2023.

PPPS, this all assumes we don't see some crazy supercycle low sub-$1K (maybe $500-700 or $2100-2700 Oct2020-Apr2021), which while not necessarily invalidating the predictive utility of natural cycles and resonances like phi, may invalidate all specified date and price targets. lol

PPPPS, there are two major conflicting factors moderating these predictions (guesses, lol):

The first is relatively positive - that the 2014 bear market was exaggerated and lengthened due to the severity of Mt. Gox fiasco's effects on the market, thus potentially also taking the wind out of the 2017 bull market (hard to believe, I know, but the top probably should have been a bit over $30K (assumign the $+1K top in 2013 was correct)). And thus, this bull market may be relatively more powerful and faster than otherwise expected, evidenced in part by the (so far) relatively short duration of the bear market.

The second factor is negative and significant, which is that the growth of bitcoin and the crypto market will lie on a curve resembling in some sense a logistic, namely that there's a limit to the number of people on earth, and the more people that adopt the fewer there will be that haven't, and the harder and more reticent the remaining group will be relative to previous converts (even as that reticence is of course competed with by seeing wider adoption occurring, lol). This and related factors will cause bitcoin's growth curve to decrease it's slope and growth derivatives in all frames. imho. If that growth deviates enough, it will eventually pierce every projected support among moving averages and those big log/quadratic curves everyone uses to project major tops and bottoms.

PPPPPS, yah, this is partially here because I despise tradingview lmao



TL;DR: $250K in Apr2024

submitted by diadlep to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Lesson - History of Bitcoin crashes

Bitcoin has spectacularly 'died' several times
📉 - 94% June-November 2011 from $32 to $2 because of MtGox hack
📉 - 36% June 2012 from $7 to $4 Linod hack
📉 - 79% April 2013 from $266 to $54. MTGox stopped trading
📉 - 87% from $1166 to $170 November 2013 to January 2015
📉 - 49% Feb 2014 MTGox tanks
📉 - 40% September 2017 from $5000 to $2972 China ban
📉 - 55% January 2018 Bitcoin ban FUD. from $19000 to 8500
I've held through all the crashes. Who's laughing now? Not the panic sellers.
Market is all about moving money from impatient to the patient. You see crash, I see opportunity.
You - OMG Bitcoin is crashing, I gotta sell!
Me - OMG Bitcoin is criminally undervalued, I gotta buy!
N.B. Word to the wise for new investors. What I've learned over 7 years is that whenever it crashes spectacularly, the bounce is twice as impactful and record-setting. I can't predict the bottom but I can assure you that it WILL hit 19k and go further beyond, as hard as it may be for a lot of folks to believe right at this moment if you haven't been through it before.
When Bitcoin was at ATH little over a month ago, people were saying, 'it's too pricey now, I can't buy'.
Well, here's your chance at almost 60% discount!
With growing main net adoption of LN, Bitcoin underlying value is greater than it was when it was valued 19k.
submitted by xcryptogurux to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

The Decade in Blockchain — 2010 to 2020 in Review

2010

February — The first ever cryptocurrency exchange, Bitcoin Market, is established. The first trade takes place a month later.
April — The first public bitcoin trade takes place: 1000BTC traded for $30 at an exchange rate of 0.03USD/1BTC
May — The first real-world bitcoin transaction is undertaken by Laszlo Hanyecz, who paid 10000BTC for two Papa John’s pizzas (Approximately $25 USD)
June — Bitcoin developer Gavin Andreson creates a faucet offering 5 free BTC to the public
July — First notable usage of the word “blockchain” appears on BitcoinTalk forum. Prior to this, it was referred to as ‘Proof-of-Work chain’
July — Bitcoin exchange named Magic The Gathering Online eXchange—also known as Mt. Gox—established
August —Bitcoin protocol bug leads to emergency hard fork
December — Satoshi Nakamoto ceases communication with the world

2011

January — One-quarter of the eventual total of 21M bitcoins have been generated
February — Bitcoin reaches parity for the first time with USD
April — Bitcoin reaches parity with EUR and GBP
June — WikiLeaks begins accepting Bitcoin donations
June — Mt. Gox hacked, resulting in suspension of trading and a precipitous price drop for Bitcoin
August — First Bitcoin Improvement Proposal: BIP Purpose and Guidelines
October — Litecoin released
December — Bitcoin featured as a major plot element in an episode of ‘The Good Wife’ as 9.45 million viewers watch.

2012

May — Bitcoin Magazine, founded by Mihai Alisie and Vitalik Buterin, publishes first issue
July — Government of Estonia begins incorporating blockchain into digital ID efforts
September — Bitcoin Foundation created
October — BitPay reports having over 1,000 merchants accepting bitcoin under its payment processing service
November — First Bitcoin halving to 25 BTC per block

2013

February — Reddit begins accepting bitcoins for Gold memberships
March — Cyprus government bailout levies bank accounts with over $100k. Flight to Bitcoin results in major price spike.
May —Total Bitcoin value surpasses 1 billion USD with 11M Bitcoin in circulation
May — The first cryptocurrency market rally and crash takes place. Prices rise from $13 to $220, and then drop to $70
June — First major cryptocurrency theft. 25,000 BTC is stolen from Bitcoin forum founder
July — Mastercoin becomes the first project to conduct an ICO
August — U.S. Federal Court issues opinion that Bitcoin is a currency or form of money
October — The FBI shuts down dark web marketplace Silk Road, confiscating approximately 26,000 bitcoins
November — Vitalik Buterin releases the Ethereum White Paper: “A Next-Generation Smart Contract and Decentralized Application Platform
December — The first commit to the Ethereum codebase takes place

2014

January — Vitalik Buterin announces Ethereum at the North American Bitcoin Conference in Miami
February — HMRC in the UK classifies Bitcoin as private money
March — Newsweek claims Dorian Nakamoto is Bitcoin creator. He is not
April — Gavin Wood releases the Ethereum Yellow Paper: “Ethereum: A Secure Decentralised Generalised Transaction Ledger
June — Ethereum Foundation established in Zug, Switzerland
June — US Marshals Service auctions off 30,000 Bitcoin confiscated from Silk Road. All are purchased by venture capitalist Tim Draper
July — Ethereum token launch raises 31,591 BTC ($18,439,086) over 42 days
September — TeraExchange launches first U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission approved Bitcoin over-the-counter swap
October — ConsenSys is founded by Joe Lubin
December — By year’s end, Paypal, Zynga, u/, Expedia, Newegg, Dell, Dish Network, and Microsoft are all accepting Bitcoin for payments

2015

January — Coinbase opens up the first U.S-based cryptocurrency exchange
February — Stripe initiates bitcoin payment integration for merchants
April — NASDAQ initiates blockchain trial
June — NYDFS releases final version of its BitLicense virtual currency regulations
July — Ethereum’s first live mainnet release—Frontier—launched.
August — Augur, the first token launch on the Ethereum network takes place
September — R3 consortium formed with nine financial institutions, increases to over 40 members within six months
October — Gemini exchange launches, founded by Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss
November — Announcement of first zero knowledge proof, ZK-Snarks
December — Linux Foundation establishes Hyperledger project

2016

January — Zcash announced
February — HyperLedger project announced by Linux Foundation with thirty founding members
March — Second Ethereum mainnet release, Homestead, is rolled out.
April — The DAO (decentralized autonomous organization) launches a 28-day crowdsale. After one month, it raises an Ether value of more than US$150M
May — Chinese Financial Blockchain Shenzhen Consortium launches with 31 members
June — The DAO is attacked with 3.6M of the 11.5M Ether in The DAO redirected to the attacker’s Ethereum account
July — The DAO attack results in a hard fork of the Ethereum Blockchain to recover funds. A minority group rejecting the hard fork continues to use the original blockchain renamed Ethereum Classic
July — Second Bitcoin halving to 12.5BTC per block mined
November — CME Launches Bitcoin Price Index

2017

January — Bitcoin price breaks US$1,000 for the first time in three years
February — Enterprise Ethereum Alliance formed with 30 founding members, over 150 members six months later
March — Multiple applications for Bitcoin ETFs rejected by the SEC
April — Bitcoin is officially recognized as currency by Japan
June — EOS begins its year-long ICO, eventually raising $4 billion
July — Parity hack exposes weaknesses in multisig wallets
August — Bitcoin Cash forks from the Bitcoin Network
October — Ethereum releases Byzantium soft fork network upgrade, part one of Metropolis
September — China bans ICOs
October — Bitcoin price surpasses $5,000 USD for the first time
November — Bitcoin price surpasses $10,000 USD for the first time
December — Ethereum Dapp Cryptokitties goes viral, pushing the Ethereum network to its limits

2018


January — Ethereum price peaks near $1400 USD
March — Google bans all ads pertaining to cryptocurrency
March — Twitter bans all ads pertaining to cryptocurrency
April — 2018 outpaces 2017 with $6.3 billion raised in token launches in the first four months of the year
April — EU government commits $300 million to developing blockchain projects
June — The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission states that Ether is not a security.
July — Over 100,000 ERC20 tokens created
August — New York Stock Exchange owner announces Bakkt, a federally regulated digital asset exchange
October — Bitcoin’s 10th birthday
November — VC investment in blockchain tech surpasses $1 billion
December — 90% of banks in the US and Europe report exploration of blockchain tech

2019

January — Coinstar machines begin selling cryptocurrency at grocery stores across the US
February — Ethereum’s Constantinople hard fork is released, part two of Metropolis
April — Bitcoin surpasses 400 million total transactions
June — Facebook announces Libra
July — United States senate holds hearings titled ‘Examining Regulatory Frameworks for Digital Currencies and Blockchain”
August — Ethereum developer dominance reaches 4x that of any other blockchain
October — Over 80 million distinct Ethereum addresses have been created
September — Santander bank settles both sides of a $20 million bond on Ethereum
November — Over 3000 Dapps created. Of them, 2700 are built on Ethereum
submitted by blockstasy to CryptoTechnology [link] [comments]

Gold and Bitcoin lead as top investments

Gold and Bitcoin lead as top investments

https://preview.redd.it/wvlkcvo0lih41.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ca7dec1b924363264b8b4dfb3a94b8d025b4ac6
A large population of investors around the world would rather invest in gold than real estate or the stock market. A World Gold Council (WGC) research report shows that over 46% of all retail investors worldwide choose gold over these two other mainstream assets.
The study questioned respondents from a wide range of markets, including North America, China, India, Russia, and Germany. The results show that 78% of investors place most of their investment funds into their savings accounts.
One other investment choice that is more popular than the precious metal is life insurance. The study shows that 54% of all global investors buy life insurance as a long-term investment. The report affirms gold’s position as a mainstream investment vehicle, highlighting the massive opportunities that the metal has for jewelry and retail selling. The report shows that most consumers would rather buy gold jewelry if given a choice of other metals.
Over 56% of the respondents in the study said that they have bought fine gold ornaments, while 34% said that they purchased platinum jewelry instead.
Another study by Novem Gold further supports the findings of the WGC research. The gold investment firm conducted a poll on Twitter asking investors what their preferred long-term investment asset was. The survey gave a choice between gold, cryptocurrencies, stocks and bonds, and real estate.
The winning long-term investments of choice on the Novem Gold poll were gold and cryptocurrencies, each chosen by 37.5% of the respondents.

Gold and Bitcoin Attract the Same Investors

Gold and Bitcoin are very different assets, but also have some similarities. Gold is old and tangible. Bitcoin is digital, intangible, and has only been around for a decade.
The two assets may be very diverse in age and physical attributes, but they share many common principles. Bitcoin mimics many characteristics of the yellow metal.
As an illustration, Bitcoin is mined digitally, and its supply is finite, as is the case with gold. It is, therefore, not surprising that both assets attract the same investors. Nevertheless, is one superior to the other?
Gold has a larger market cap, standing at over $7.5 trillion compared to Bitcoin’s market cap of $150 billion. The metal has higher daily turnover volumes of close to $230 billion, while Bitcoin’s is much lower at $8 billion.
Bitcoin and gold bulls say that both assets are much better forms of currency than fiat. When central banks all over the world voted to move away from the gold standard, paper money quickly lost its value. In no time, politicians got hold of the monetary system, manipulating it and using it to spend heavily, then place future taxes to pay the debt back.
Consequently, most of the money in circulation globally is valueless. It, however, fulfills the functions of a currency, in that paper money is an acceptable medium of exchange. Fiat is also divisible, portable, durable, and very fungible. It has an inbuilt value erosion mechanism, making it a questionable store of value.
Every year, the value of paper money erodes, as more of it is inflated into the system. As a result, savers lose more of their investment in fiat as taxation subtracts the value of money. The process works so stealthily that over time interest on borrowing keeps inflation in balance.
Occasionally, the balance tilts and the real value of fiat becomes clear. In the last few decades, countries such as Argentina, Venezuela, Thailand, Zimbabwe, and Iraq have witnessed money fail the real test of a store of value after periods of hyperinflation.

Investors Want Guaranteed Value Over Time

Gold and Bitcoin both attract investors wary of the value-losing and manipulable aspects of fiat. They are looking for haven assets whose value is guaranteed over time. Gold meets this requirement perfectly.
First, it is itself a currency – an ancient medium of exchange. Its robust store of value features makes it a staple asset in every central bank vault around the world. The US government, for instance, has over $350 billion of gold reserves.
The yellow metal is also divisible and limited, indestructible by nature, and counterfeit resistant. It is the product of billions of years of geological forces, so a central bank or any other process known to man cannot replicate it.
The limit in supply means that it has deflation and inflation limits. Consequently, it is the perfect investment for savers. Since it is inert, it can be subdivided into smaller pieces and stored with no loss of value. Its softness and malleability make it very easy to shape it into coins or bars that can be used in trade.
These attributes have made the precious metal the most valued store of wealth in history. It was in use in ancient kingdoms and governments dating back to beyond the Roman Empire. Gold has, over time, accumulated tremendous value, appreciating over centuries. This is the reason gold is used to store wealth in uncertain times by governments, the wealthy, and investment-savvy populations. Gold’s performance often shines when other markets are crashing. It is, therefore, the ultimate hedge against any black swan event.
Bitcoin, on the other hand, is divisible, finite, democratic, and counterfeit resistant as well. It has unique advantages to gold, in that it can be mined and traded in record time, online. To access the cryptocurrency’s market, investors require a public address and a private key to receive and to protect assets.
Just like gold, Bitcoin is a “bearer” instrument, in that whoever holds it can lay claim to its value. Both assets are, therefore, easy to lose and require significant efforts to protect them. It is easier to steal Bitcoin than gold because the digital currency does not have the bulk that gold has. All it takes is a few seconds of vulnerability, and the asset is lost to an unscrupulous player.
Consequently, billions worth of cryptocurrencies have been lost since their inception. Most famous of all these crypto heists is the 2014 Mt. Gox hack, during which $450 million worth of digital assets were stolen from investors.

Gold’s Stability is Unparalleled

The bulk that gold has compared to Bitcoin does not make it much easier to store. Indeed, the precious metals’ holders pay a premium for their storage and insurance costs.
Gold’s bulk also prevents its secure storage in large amounts. It is an awkward haven asset if it has to be ferried in large quantities, a problem Bitcoin does not have. Bitcoin, therefore, makes for a fantastic haven asset when the chips are down.
Both gold and Bitcoin are speculative assets, and their buyers often buy them in bad economic times, waiting for their haven properties to push their values higher. Jerome Powell, the FED Chair, has referred to Bitcoin as an alternative to gold, saying:
“Almost no one uses Bitcoin for payments, they use it more as an alternative to gold. It’s a speculative store of value.”
These assets’ finite values make them perfect for year-to-year speculative trading because a limited amount gets to the market at a time. Bitcoin has more of an upside than gold in shortness of supply; of the 21 million Bitcoins that can be mined, 18 million of them are already in circulation. The digital currency also has a halving event, in which its mining block reward is decreased, meaning that less fresh Bitcoin will be available.
Nevertheless, the world cannot have enough gold, despite an injection of over 3,300 tons of freshly mined gold into the market every year. Gold has been facing an upsurge in demand among individual and institutional investors and central banks around the globe.
One of the most significant advantages that gold has over Bitcoin is the precious metal’s slow but stable growth trajectory in the market. An excellent speculative asset, it is not as volatile as Bitcoin, stocks, or bonds.
Gold is stalwart, stable, and reliable in the long term. The precious metal is not fighting to establish itself. It has a proven record of accomplishment that it will keep its purchasing power with very low levels of volatility over the decades.
Bitcoin is a rollercoaster ride birthed in the wake of the 2008 financial crash. It is, therefore, still untested, and its store of value features can only be proven by time.
submitted by y0ujin to NovemGold [link] [comments]

Thoughts on the current downturn

From https://forums.prohashing.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=23082#p23082:
---------------------------------------------

The current downturn in the cryptocurrency markets itself isn't very surprising. There have been many bubbles before, and there will be at least one more bubble after this. What surprises me about this cycle is how quickly the market has collapsed. Whereas previous cycles fell slowly after the long middle period where prices stalled, this time the bottom fell out in the course of a week. This post will review the consequences of the new market reality.

Bitcoins are holding up well
Perhaps the biggest shock of this cycle is how the price of bitcoins has held up so well compared to that of other coins. In June 2017, when we were deciding whether this pool could be a profitable business and how many people we should hire if it could be. We determined that the average case where the coins would settle was bitcoins at $1574, ETH at $110, and LTC at $30. ETH and LTC have already surpassed the average case decline we had projected, while BTC is holding above twice the projected bottom.

The reason for BTC holding up so well isn't obvious. Almost every other coin is superior to BTC in some way. For example, LTC and BCH are much cheaper to send money with, ETH is used for contracts, and Monero has anonymity.

I don't think that bitcoins will hold up for much longer. I think that the capitulation to $980 is still ahead, and the price after capitulation will be $1500 or so. The BTC network still hasn't reckoned with the lack of a realistic plan to increase its block size. At some point, the lightning network is going to be shown as a technical marvel that works well when people are running nodes, but that it's too difficult for ordinary users and that money transmission regulations will not permit most businesses to run nodes. The Core developers are still pressing on with their effort despite the money transmission regulations.

Right now, growth is being driven by people willing to experiment. Eventually, the lightning network will run out of hobbyists to adopt it and its growth will cease, because normal businesses like us won't touch it due to the legal risks. At that point, people will realize that there is no "Plan B" for Bitcoin, and perhaps that will cause capitulation and force the Core to reevaluate their path forward.


We should reevaluate how coins are valued
Another change in this crash from the previous crashes is the complete lack of news to explain it. During the $32 -> $2 downturn, it was quite possible that nobody would ever adopt cryptocurrencies. During the $266 -> $69 downturn, many believed that Mt. Gox's unreliability and instability would lead to the death of the industry. During the $1160 -> $160 bubble, China banned bitcoins every week. But during the past two weeks, there has been no news of any importance.

In particular, ETH prices are absurd. I really don't understand how people think that ETH is priced anything close to its real value. Gas prices continue to rise and people think it's worth 6% of what it was a year ago? If I were paid in dollars, I would be changing them to ETH as fast as I could right now.

Since these prices don't make sense with what many people and I think are the fundamentals, then we need to reevaluate our views on how coins are valued. It's quite possible that the idea that things like transaction capacity and features [i]don't actually matter[/i].

There was one news article that caught my attention a while back. It proposed that, during 2017, a lot of the buyers into coins came from "ordinary people" who knew very little about cryptocurrencies. These people talked about coins at parties and bought what their friends bought. Someone like me, who spends most of his time at home writing code for this business, who is not married, and who has fewer friends than the average person, would not have been exposed to enough instances to make a connection if it were true that someone talked about bitcoins at every social event. I'd also venture that many of the people discussing bubbles in Internet forums also engage in less socializing than the average person, so reading theories about what happened from them leads to inaccurate conclusions.

During the next bubble, I'm going to more strongly consider social issues rather than technical issues and see whether that increases the accuracy of my predictions.


IPOs of mining manufacturers were too slow
One way to predict that this would not be a quick recovery into another bubble like the first 2013 collapse was to look at the IPOs from the mining manufacturers. Businesses don't issue IPOs when they have plenty of money - why would you give up potential profits to get money now if you don't need it? Instead, executives at the companies were really smart and saw that the writing was on the wall. Their problem was that they moved too slowly to sell their stakes. I don't think that the IPOs will be able to raise sufficient capital at this point and they will probably be cancelled. Bitmain or one of the other big mining manufacturers will likely go out of business.

Mining manufacturing is an interesting business because there is zero demand for your product during times like these. The industry basically resets every few years with new companies. The bitcoin difficulty just fell 15% during the last period, and the market is flooded with the miners that were just shut down. Why would anyone buy a new miner when all these old miners are being given away at any cost?

It doesn't make sense that anyone would ever invest in these IPOs or in the rumored Coinbase IPO. All of these stocks are 100% dependent on the cryptocurrency market recovering. If cryptocurrencies settle at these prices indefinitely, Coinbase will be unable to support its operations and will collapse, so you'll lose a lot more money than if you invested in coins (which have no chance of ever being completely worthless anymore.) If cryptocurrencies increase in value, they will go up by 100-1000x and Coinbase's stock will go up by 5x or 10x. In both cases, buying an IPO in the cryptocurrency world never makes as much sense as buying the coins themselves. Either buy coins or buy stocks in some unrelated industry to diversify.


"Manipulation" is a buzzword people use to explain things they don't like
Whenever prices fall, people start complaining about "manipulation." They experienced a huge drop, so the people selling must have been "manipulating" the market to cause them to lose money. The latest theory is that Bitfinex is not being honest with its Tether reserves. Bitfinex clearly violated the law by serving US customers and not shutting down when it was insolvent, but there isn't any evidence that Tether is going to fail due to fraud.

Note that Tether may fail due to banks discontinuing Tether's accounts, but that is different than fraud where a misrepresentation is being made.

I don't believe that the cryptocurrency markets are "manipulated" like most people think. There are some scams, especially those where people create ICOs and don't deliver a product. I doubt that the SEC will bring any charges against Bitfinex, and most of these complaints about "manipulation" are simply people complaining because they lost money.


Businesses will start to fail
Now I can get to the consequence that I think is the most important to understand in predicting how the next cycle plays out.

One of the reasons that the next bubble is a while away is because there have not yet been a lot of businesses that have failed. One of the unfortunate aspects of cryptocurrency, and one that significantly delays its development, is how the bubble cycle causes good ideas to fail. For example, the ETCDEV team, which contributed to Ethereum Classic development, recently folded due to bankruptcy. While I don't hold much love for people who are willing to overlook something as heinous as the DAO theft, the ETCDEV team did seem like it would be a significant contributor to developing ETC, and that won't happen now.

In fact, it's more likely that honest, ethical businesses will fail during this coming down cycle than scammers and fraudsters. It doesn't cost much to be a scammer - you just register some fake accounts and announce a new project, then disappear with all the money. Operating an honest business is expensive. It will cost us $15,000 just to comply with the 1099-MISC regulations next month. That's why, as prices fall, we should expect disreputable people to start to again outnumber law-abiding citizens in this industry. We can already see that happening as people with criminal records like Craig Wright, Roger Ver, and Charlie Shrem are dominating the conversation more and more.

As prices fall, businesses will need to make a decision. Many of them will decide to "pivot" - which essentially means that the company is shutting down and is creating a new firm in a different industry. This was common in 2015. Remember that the level at which a company should quit working in cryptocurrencies is not determined by whether they are making money, but by whether they are making as much money as they could in another field. Most of the time, companies that "pivot" don't return to whatever they were doing before, because they either find the "pivot" field to be lucrative, in which case it makes sense to keep at it, or they go bankrupt in that field too and close down permanently.

They key issue with these "pivots" and outright bankruptcies is that talent leaves the industry and is permanently gone. It takes at least 6 months for a programmer to join a project and become familiar with a codebase, during which time that person's productivity is significantly reduced. The cost of training a new hire is often as much as that person's salary for an entire year, given that other people in the company need to slow down to train the new person. When people leave a company, they don't just come back if times get better. They get new jobs, with new responsibilities, and that knowledge is lost.

Suppose that there is a company that has created an amazing Ethereum-based marketplace that will eventually gain millions of simultaneous customers. The marketplace reaches completion, but in the downturn the company is forced to shut down until the market turns around again, because all their customers are gone. Even if the owner of the company retains the software and is available and willing to restart when the next bubble begins, years have passed and new employees are needed. It will take 6 months to get all the employees hired, another 3 to get them minimally trained, another 1 to upgrade all the development environments, packages, and tools that became obsolete during the stoppage to get everything up to current standards, and another 2 to redo the website design to do the same thing with different colors and designs because the Internet for some reason changed its mind on what makes "attractive" webpages again.

If the downturn lasts two years, then this project could have been out [i]three years earlier[/i] if it weren't for the bubbles. Not only that, but the project's suspension itself contributed to the long duration of the bubble cycle. There would have been more activity in cryptocurrencies if this system had been available.

This effect is why I believe that as prices decline, the length of the upcoming downturn will increase significantly. Over the next weeks and months, we're going to start to hear of promising projects fail, and that's going to reduce the value of coins, cascading into other projects' feasibility, and creating a ripple effect of "pivots" and bankruptcies.

This is why I think that the first 2013 bubble had a much different outcome than the second 2013 bubble. In the first 2013 bubble, prices never collapsed after the long period of stability, and businesses were able to keep moving forward during that time. During the second 2013 bubble, prices collapsed after that period of stability that ended in August 2014, and one can look back at news articles form the day listing failures and "pivots" that occurred in the subsequent months.

If it weren't for bubbles, the industry would be years ahead of where it is now. The smartphone, for example, rose from unknown to market saturation in 10 years. After 10 years, where are cryptocurrencies, which also arose in 2008? About 6 or 7 years behind where they could be, because every bubble requires a reset with new companies, given that most of the work from the previous bubble is wasted.


There will be a next bubble
Finally, there will definitely be a next bubble - of that, I'm 100% certain. If you're not sure of that, then consider a scenario where you live in a world that already uses cryptocurrencies for all transactions. One day, a government decides that it's going to create its own currency, which it will be able to inflate at will, and which will take hundreds of times longer to conduct transactions with.

Do you think people would use that currency?
submitted by MattAbrams to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

100k+ in Mt. Gox Bitcoin— what does it mean?

I am not a Japanese bankruptcy lawyer. If a Japanese bankruptcy attorney corrects me, I will edit this post.
However, I work in US bankruptcy. There is an absurd amount of misinformation floating around.
Who owned the 200,000 Bitcoin remaining after Mt. Gox went bankrupt in 2014?
Mt. Gox was supposed to have 850,000 BTC. They lost most of that. 200,000 of that 850,000 were later found in cold storage. Mt. Gox declared bankruptcy. Since that point, that 200k BTC has been under the control of the bankruptcy court.
But 35k+ BTC has been sold in the last 3 months. Who is doing that?
The bankruptcy court appointed a trustee. The trustee’s job is to squeeze as much value out of the debtor’s (Mt. Gox) assets in order to repay the creditors (people Mt. Gox owed money to).
This is an incredibly unique situation. BTC has gone from $400 to up to $20,000 since the bankruptcy. Currently BTC is around $9300, or more than 23x the price when Mt. Gox went bankrupt.
What does declaring bankruptcy mean?
Simplified, it means that a debtor (Mt. Gox) freezes its debts and says it will repay these debts before any other. It is more complicated than that usually, but not in this case.
Mt. Gox closed for business, and said I owe ‘X’ amount of dollars to ‘Y’ amount of people. I will repay this amount to the best of my ability using all of my assets, which included 200k bitcoin.
Why is this situation unique
Bitcoin was $400 when Mt. Gox went bankrupt. It’s $9300 now. This means that the 200k BTC the Mt. Gox trustee holds went from worth $80 million at the time of bankruptcy to worth just under 2 billion before sale a couple months ago. Normally assets don’t appreciate like that in a bankruptcy case.
Why has the trustee sold 35k BTC
Mt. Gox owed investors just under $400 million dollars, if calculated by the amount owed at the time of the Mt. Gox Bankruptcy in 2014. The 35k BTC has been sold to cover this debt and repay these investors.
Can the trustee unilaterally sell the remaining 165k BTC?
No. The trustee only acts with court permission.
Has the trustee intentionally crashed the market, and bought the dips?
This is in Japan. As stated, I am not familiar with Japanese Law. However, in America, a trustee who abused his power for financial gain would almost certainly end up in jail.
What next?
No one knows. If Mt. Gox owes further debts, the court could allow further BTC sales to cover it.
If Mt. Gox does not owe further debts, the BTC will be released by the court to 1 or more parties. I will not speculate on who or how many.
Long-term, what does this mean?
165k bitcoin will be returned to individuals who may hodl, or sell. No one knows.
Further, no one knows when this will occur. Days? Months? Years? Uncertain. My guess is months—not days or years.
Why did you make this post?
I kept seeing comment after comment about how a Japanese lawyer controls crypto’s future because he currently controls a ton of BTC. I’m trying to correct this misconception.
He does not permanently control anything. Even what he currently controls is subject to court supervision.
Edit: Wow, first gold! Thank you kind stranger!
submitted by Smugal to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

r/Bitcoin recap - March 2018

Hi Bitcoiners!
I’m back with the fifteenth monthly Bitcoin news recap.
For those unfamiliar, each day I pick out the most popularelevant/interesting stories in Bitcoin and save them. At the end of the month I release them in one batch, to give you a quick (but not necessarily the best) overview of what happened in bitcoin over the past month.
And a lot has happened. It's easy to forget with so much focus on the price. Take a moment and scroll through the list below. You'll find an incredibly eventful month.
You can see recaps of the previous months on Bitcoinsnippets.com
A recap of Bitcoin in March 2018
submitted by SamWouters to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

$1B bitcoins on the move: MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and BTC price impact discussed

$1B bitcoins on the move: MtGox vs SilkRoad origin and BTC price impact discussed
Preamble: it seems that my post was censored and removed on bitcoin... from now I will only publish my articles on btc and crosspost it. Freedom and freespeech matter to me.
--

This is the 4th post of a series of articles dedicated to investigate $1B worth of bitcoins (111,114 BTC/BCH/... BXX) that were dormant since 2014 and started moving actively. The BTC coins were originally located at this address (1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a).
  • The facts that part of this funds (>13%) have been transferred in the past month to Bitfinex, Binance and Bitmex exchanges is discussed here.
  • The origin of the bitcoins was originally discussed here.
  • A deep-dive into the wallet activity was discussed here.

Today I am writing a short update to discuss the origin of the funds and some events that could be related both to this wallet and yesterday's price crash.

Wallet's origin

This question has been discussed a lot by the crypto community in the past year.
Here is a summary of the most probable hypothesis for the 1933p wallet's origin:
  1. a SilkRoad user or DPRs wallet per this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
  2. a MtGox cold wallet that has been seized or is still owned by MtGox: in fact the wallet funds moved in March 2014 right after MtGox filed for bankruptcy one month earlier in February 2014; these movements dates are really similar to the 200,000 lost coins "found" by Karpeles which moved March 7th, 2014 (1dda0f8827518ce4d1d824bf7600f75ec7e199774a090a947c58a65ab63552e3), just 2 days before the movements on the wallet we are talking about here.
  3. a whale wallet since the major part of the 111,111 coins are coming from a very old deposit of 37,421 coins processed on June 21st, 2011 making this an early adopter's wallet (70d46f768b73e50440e41977eb13ab25826137a8d34486958c7d55c5931c6081)

Wizsec, a prominent Bitcoin security expert, seems to be pretty sure that the wallet belongs to a MtGox hodler and early investor, who is not a DPR or a SilkRoad user, per his Twitter post: https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1037030003068653569
Finally, Wizsec and I agree that this wallet is not CSW`'s wallet despite it is mentioned in several court documents. Wizsec spent a lot of time debunking CSW's ownership claims earlier this year: https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/968337084837781504

What do you think about this wallet origin?
`
BTC price crash

Also, I wanted to report some events that could be related to this 1933p wallet activity:

  • $100M USDT were transferred (reported by u/whalecheetah) while the 1933f wallet owner was in the process of transferring approximately the same amount to several exchanges.
(update) Here is a link provided by u/jesquit: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/9cj208/bitcoin_surge_expected_as_100m_tether_goes_to
  • 10,000 BTC buy order was filed last night on Bitmex with 8,030 BTC transferred from a Bitfinex user wallet while the 1933p wallet owner transferred approximately the same amount of BTC to Bitfinex since August, 24th.
(update) Here is the actual BTC transaction: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/f2465a1225531d33696380f06034499a52d707f85ee6ae1419885980011f6e25 ,
with its Bitfinex inputs:
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (3,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (2,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (2,000)
1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g (1,029.98)
and output to Bitmex:
3BMEXqGpG4FxBA1KWhRFufXfSTRgzfDBhJ (10,000).

Was this deal prepared or was the buyer a bitcoin angel?

--
In the light of September 6th price crash, do you think the $100M transferred to the exchanges caused it?

https://preview.redd.it/npazsakt1uk11.png?width=2277&format=png&auto=webp&s=1806829761fb30619b4796961b9616875f1ca602
submitted by sick_silk to btc [link] [comments]

A small reminder to withdrawl your crypto off the exchange...

Quote from a noob: 'No need to worry, I'm sure the exchange has taken the appropriate mesures...'
Mt. Gox, 2014: we got hacked and lost all the money!
'NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!. I'll have to buy some again!'
1 year later
BTC-e, 2015: 'This site has been seized by the FBI...
'DAMMIT! AGAIN!'
QuadrigaCX- 2019: 'The CEO died and he was the only one to know the private keys.' (Yeah, right...)
'AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!'
'That's it! I'm never touching BTC ever again!'
20 years later
The times, 2039: 'Fiat currency crashes, the chancellor can't bailout banks anymore...
Burns credit cards, cheques, fiat money, and goes on the street to start begging for satoshis and dogecoin.
Seriously though, please remember guys: not your keys, not your bitcoin. If it is truly lost/stolen and spent, no attorney can get it back for you. Cryptography will always be stronger than arbitrary laws and a convincing person's words.
submitted by keto-guy03 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Daily Discussion Threads around historically significant Bitcoin price motions 2014-2017: This may help you understand the sentiment around the times of great changes so you can know when turnarounds happen and what to watch for.

I’m not trying to suggest any major price change is imminent or offer any trading advice because I can’t see the future, but you can see the past and perhaps learn from it. And thanks to the Internet, everything is nicely archived for everyone to see I’m just gathering it all into one place to make it convenient for everyone to see. Daily discussions courtesy of bitcoinmarkets
A week after all time high of the 2013 bull market. Jan 5 2014 (price just short of 1000 USD.) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1ufv0m/daily_discussion_sunday_january_05_2014/
Nearly 2 months after the start of the 2014-2015 crash. 8 days before Mt. Gox filed for civil rehabilitation. Feb 20 2014 (price around 550 USD.) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1yeycw/daily_discussion_thursday_february_20_2014/
Low of 2014-2015 crash. Jan 14 2015 (price sub 200 USD for the day) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/2sd4qy/daily_discussion_wednesday_january_14_2015/
When bitcoin finally found solid support at previous all time high. Jan 8 2017 (price holding steady at 1000 USD) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/5moxwdaily_discussion_sunday_january_08_2017/
Subjective beginning of the 2017 bull hype market. June 26 2017 (price around 2500 USD) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6jivdx/daily_discussion_monday_june_26_2017/
Final push to current all time high. Dec 15 2017 (price around 18,000 USD) - https://www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/7jxaly/daily_discussion_friday_december_15_2017/
A week and a half after current bitcoin all time high. [Interestingly, #2 won’t find its high until Jan 13.] Dec 31 2017(price around 13,500 USD) - www.reddit.com/BitcoinMarkets/comments/7n6e7s/daily_discussion_sunday_december_31_2017/
submitted by UndeadWolf222 to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

A Couple of Notes on the 2013/14 Bubble VS. 2017 Bubble

I'm seeing a lot of posts comparing the 2017 Bubble to the 2013-14 Bubble. I think the comparisons are fair. However, many people are mixing up what happened in 2013-14 and the timeline. One of the most common mistakes I'm seeing is that the 2013-14 bubble popped due to Mt. Gox insolvency. That is false.
The 2013-14 bubble was abrupt, even when compared to the 2017 bubble. The price skyrocketed from $200 USD to $1200 USD in one month. From November 1st to November 30th, BTC went up basically 6X. Back in 2013-14, there were basically two markets which were getting solid volume. BTC/USD and BTC/CNY. BTC/USD was mostly taking place on Mt. Gox, Bitstamp, Coinbase, and BTC-e. BTC/CNY was mostly taking place on OKCoin and BTCChina. There was no Korea or Japan back then, which definitely played a major role in the recent bull market.
And while Chinese exchanges were creating a lot of fake volume back in 2013-14 through 0% exchange fees, the fact was that China was leading the markets. [1] They consistently held a 10%+ premium over USD exchanges during the bull run. At the height of the bubble in China, before the PBOC stepped in with its clampdown on Bitcoin, China Telecom and Baidu announced support for Bitcoin. It was on the verge of literally replacing the CNY. [2]
On November 30th, 2013, a rumor emerged that the PBOC (People's Bank of China / China Government) was about to crack down on Bitcoin. A mass panic ensued. The price crashed from $1200 USD to $780 USD. In one day. That's a 35% crash in a single day. However, the market quickly bounced back as people argued that these rumors were fabricated. However, this rebound was short lived.
On December 5th, 2013, the PBOC made an official announcement. The government banned financial institutions from interacting with Bitcoin. They also clarified that products / services in China could not be priced in BTC (they must be priced in CNY). The markets went straight down on this news. From $1150 USD when it broke to $540 on December 7th. A 3 day drop of over 50%.
Where was Mt. Gox in all this? They were chugging along, delaying fiat withdrawals. Bitcoin withdrawals were working fine. Deposits too. For much of November and December there was very little noise about Mt.Gox actually being insolvent. The overwhelming market sentiment on the matter was that their banks were being disrupted by the US Government investigations into Silkroad. This was true to a very mild extent.
If you'd like to argue that people knew Mt. Gox was insolvent at the time of the 2013-14 bubble crash, I'd like to point out that Bitfinex basically had the exact same issues arise in 2017. Fiat withdrawals and deposits were basically turned off. Clearly Bitfinex was a different situation in hindsight (we hope!), but initially it was playing out just the same as Mt. Gox. The markets never really reacted to Bitfinex fiat issues, just as they didn't react to the Mt. Gox issues. There was so much money going through Mt. Gox that it had a Titanic feel to it. The majority of people bought their first BTC on Mt. Gox.
The Chart: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/wlTsEFJ4-Reason-Behind-2013-14-Bitcoin-Bear-Market/
This chart outlines the dates of the key events in the 2013-14 bubble crash. The most significant event in the crash was absolutely the China ban. That is what kicked off the 2013-14 bubble crash, and it definitely had the most profound impact on price. While the Mt. Gox fiasco certainly did not help the markets, it's not the reason for the bubble and should not be quoted as the reason. [3]
So in conclusion, when people are comparing the 2014 bubble with the 2017 bubble, it should be noted that they are very different. But not for the reasons most people assume. They are different because the 2014 bubble was almost entirely based on the Chinese market, and it was squashed by the PBOC themselves by imposing big regulations.
Today, the markets are certainly more spread out and there are less single points of failure. There is no single event which turned the bull market to a bear market this time around, although I personally believe we ran out of gas this time around because of regulation in Korea and China.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/28/buyer-beware-bitcoins-fate-could-rest-with-china.html
[2] https://www.coindesk.com/baidu-stops-bitcoin-price-slumps-again/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox
submitted by bitreality to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

25 Tools and Resources for Crypto Investors: Guide to how to create a winning strategy

Lots of people have PM'd me asking me the same questions on where to find information and how to put together their portfolio so I decided to put a guide for crypto investors, especially those who have only been in a few months and are still confused.
This is going to be Part 1 and will deal with research resources, risk and returns. In Part 2 I'll post a systematic approach to valuation and picking individual assets with derived price targets.

Getting started: Tools and resources

You don't have to be a programmer or techie to invest in crypto, but you should first learn the basics of how it functions. I find that this video by 3Blue1Brown is the best introduction to what a blockchain actually is and how it functions, because it explains it clearly and simply with visuals while not dumbing it down too much. If you want a more ELI5 version with cute cartoons, then Upfolio has a nice beginner's intro to the blockchain concept and quick descriptions of top 100 cryptocurrencies. I also recommend simply going to Wikipedia and reading the blockchain and cryptocurrency page and clicking onto a few links in, read about POS vs POW...etc. Later on you'll need this information to understand why a specific use case may or may not benefit from a blockchain structure. Here is a quick summary of the common terms you should know.
Next you should arm yourself with some informational resources. I compiled a convenient list of useful tools and sites that I've used and find to be worthy of bookmarking:
Market information
Analysis tools
Portfolio Tracking
Youtube
I generally don't follow much on Youtube because it's dominated by idiocy like Trevon James and CryptoNick, but there are some that I think are worthy of following:

Constructing a Investment Strategy

I can't stress enough how important it is to construct an actual investment strategy. Organize what your goals are, what your risk tolerance is and how you plan to construct a portfolio to achieve those goals rather than just chasing the flavor of the week.
Why? Because it will force you to slow down and make decisions based on rational thinking rather than emotion, and will also inevitably lead you to think long term.

Setting ROI targets

Bluntly put, a lot of young investors who are in crypto have really unrealistic expectations about returns and risk.
A lot of them have never invested in any other type of financial asset, and hence many seem to consider a 10% ROI in a month to be unexciting, even though that is roughly what they should be aiming for.
I see a ton of people now on this sub and on other sites making their decisions with the expectation to double their money every month. This has lead a worrying amount of newbies putting in way too much money way too quickly into anything on the front page of CoinMarketCap with a low dollar value per coin hoping that crypto get them out of their debt or a life of drudgery in a cubicle. And all in the next year or two!
But its important to temper your hype about returns and realize why we had this exponential growth in the last year. Its not because we are seeing any mass increase in adoption, if anything adoption among eCommerce sites is decreasing. The only reason we saw so much upward price action is because of fiat monetary base expansion from people FOMO-ing in due to media coverage of previous price action. People are hoping to ride the bubble and sell to a greater fool in a few months, it is classic Greater Fool Theory. That's it. We passed the $1,000 psychological marker again for Bitcoin which we hadn't seen since right before the Mt.Gox disaster, and it just snowballed the positivity as headline after headline came out about the price growth. However those unexciting returns of 10% a month are not only the norm, but much more healthy for an alternative investment class. Here are the annual returns for Bitcoin for the last few years:
Year BTC Return
2017 1,300%
2016 120%
2015 35%
2014 -60%
2013 5300%
2012 150 %
Keep in mind that a 10% monthly increase when compounded equals a 313% annual return, or over 3x your money. That may not sound exciting to those who entered recently and saw their money go 20x in a month on something like Tron before it crashed back down, but that 3X annual return is better than Bitcoin's return every year except the year right before the last market meltdown and 2017. I have been saying for a while now that we are due for a major correction and every investor now should be planning for that possibility through proper allocation and setting return expectations that are reasonable.

Risk Management

Quanitifying risk in crypto is surprisingly difficult because the historical returns aren't normally distributed, meaning that tools like Sharpe Ratio and other risk metrics can't really be used as intended. Instead you'll have to think of your own risk tolerance and qualitatively evaluate how risky each crypto is based on the team, the use case prospects, the amount of competition and the general market risk.
You can think of each crypto having a risk factor that is the summation of the general crypto market risk (Rm) as ultimately everything is tied to how Bitcoin does, but also its own inherent risk specific to its own goals (Ri).
Rt = Rm +Ri
The market risk is something you cannot avoid, if some China FUD comes out about regulations on Bitcoin then your investment in solid altcoin picks will go down too along with Bitcoin. This (Rm) return is essentially what risk you undertake to have a market ROI of 385% I talked about above. What you can minimize though is the Ri, the aset specific risks with the team, the likelihood they will actually deliver, the likelihood that their solution will be adopted. Unfortunately there is no one way to do this, you simply have to take the time to research and form your own opinion on how risky it really is before allocating a certain percentage to it. Consider the individual risk of each crypto and start looking for red flags:
  • guaranteed promises of large returns (protip: that's a Ponzi)
  • float allocations that give way too much to the founder
  • vague whitepapers
  • vague timelines
  • no clear use case
  • Github with no useful code and sparse activity
  • a team that is difficult to find information on or even worse anonymous
While all cryptocurrencies are a risky investments but generally you can break down cryptos into "low" risk core, medium risk speculative and high risk speculative
  • Low Risk Core - This is the exchange pairing cryptos and those that are well established. These are almost sure to be around in 5 years, and will recover after any bear market. Bitcoin, Litecoin and Ethereum are in this class of risk, and I would also argue Monero.
  • Medium Risk Speculative - These would be cryptos which generally have at least some product and are reasonably established, but higher risk than Core. Things like ZCash, Ripple, NEO..etc.
  • High Risk Speculative - This is anything created within the last few months, low caps, shillcoins, ICOs...etc. Most cryptos are in this category, most of them will be essentially worthless in 5 years.
How much risk should you take on? That depends on your own life situation but also it should be proportional to how much expertise you have in both financial analysis and technology. If you're a newbie who doesn't understand the tech and has no idea how to value assets, your risk tolerance should be lower than a programmer who understand the tech or a financial analyst who is experienced in valuation metrics.
Right now the trio of BTC-ETH-LTC account for 55% of the market cap, so between 50-70% of your portfolio in low Risk Core for newbies is a great starting point. Then you can go down to 25-30% as you gain confidence and experience. But always try to keep about 1/3rd in safe core positions. Don't go all in on speculative picks.
Core principles to minimize risk
  • Have the majority of your holdings in things you feel good holding for at least 2 years. Don't use the majority of your investment for day trading or short term investing.
  • Consider using dollar cost averaging to enter a position. This generally means investing a X amount over several periods, instead of at once. You can also use downward biased dollar cost averaging to mitigate against downward risk. For example instead of investing $1000 at once in a position at market price, you can buy $500 at the market price today then set several limit orders at slightly lower intervals (for example $250 at 5% lower than market price, $250 at 10% lower than market price). This way your average cost of acquisition will be lower if the crypto happens to decline over the short term.
  • Never chase a pump. Its simply too risky as its such an inefficient and unregulated market. If you continue to do it, most of your money losing decisions will be because you emotionally FOMO-ed into gambling on a symbol.
  • Invest what you can afford to lose. Don't have more than 5-10% of your net worth in crypto.
  • Consider what level of loss you can't accept in a position with a high risk factor, and use stop-limit orders to hedge against sudden crashes. Set you stop price at about 5-10% above your lowest limit. Stop-limit orders aren't perfect but they're better than having no hedging strategy for a risky microcap in case of some meltdown. Only you can determine what bags you are unwilling to hold.
  • Diversify across sectors and rebalance your allocations periodically. Keep about 1/3rd in low risk core holdings.
  • Have some fiat in reserve at a FDIC-insured exchange (ex. Gemini), and be ready to add to your winning positions on a pullback.
  • Remember you didn't actually make any money until you take some profits, so take do some profits when everyone else is at peak FOMO-ing bubble mode. You will also sleep much more comfortably once you take out the equivalent of your principal.

Portfolio Allocation

Along with thinking about your portfolio in terms of risk categories described above, I really find it helpful to think about the segments you are in. OnChainFX has some segment categorization to think about:
  • Currency
  • General Purpose Platform
  • Advertising
  • Crowdfunding Platform
  • Lending Platform
  • Privacy
  • Distributed Computing/Storage
  • Prediction Markets
  • IOT (Internet of Things)
  • Asset Management
  • Content Creation
  • Exchange Platform
I generally like to simplify these down to these 7 segments:
  • Core holdings - essentially the Low Risk Core segment
  • Platform segment
  • Privacy segment
  • Finance/Bank settlement segment
  • Enterprise Blockchain solutions segment
  • Promising/Innovative Tech segment
This is merely what I use, but I'm sure you can think of your own. The key point I have is to try to invest your medium and high risk picks in a segment you understand well, and in which you can relatively accurately judge risk. If you don't understand anything about how banking works or SWIFT or international settlement layers, don't invest in Stellar. If you have no idea how a supply chain functions, avoid investing in VeChain (even if it's being shilled to death on Reddit at the moment just like XRB was last month). Buffet calls this "circle of competence", he invests in sectors he understands and avoids those he doesn't like tech. I think doing the same thing in crypto is a wise move.
What's interesting is that often we see like-coin movement, for example when a coin from one segment pumps we will frequently see another similar coin in the same segment go up (think Stellar following after Ripple).
Consider the historic correlations between your holdings. Generally when Bitcoin pumps, altcoins dump but at what rate depends on the coin. When Bitcoin goes sideways we tend to see pumping in altcoins, while when Bitcoin goes down, everything goes down.
You should set price targets for each of your holdings, which is a whole separate discussion I'll go in Part 2 of the guide.

Summing it up

This was meant to get you think about what return targets you should set for your portfolio and how much risk you are willing to take and what strategies you can follow to mitigate that risk.
Returns around 385% (average crypto market CAGR over the last 3 years) would be a good target to aim for while remaining realistic, you can tweak it a bit based on your own risk tolerance. What category of risk your individual crypto picks should be will be determined by how much more greed you have for above average market return. A portfolio of 50% core holdings, 30% medium risk in a sector you understand well and 20% in high risk speculative is probably what the average portfolio should look like, with newbies going more towards 70% core and only 5% high risk speculative.
Just by thinking about these things you'll likely do better than most crypto investors, because most don't think about this stuff, to their own detriment.
submitted by arsonbunny to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Crypto Investing Guide: Useful resources and tools, and how to create an investment strategy

Lots of people have PM'd me asking me the same questions on where to find information and how to put together their portfolio so I decided to put a guide for crypto investors, especially those who have only been in a few months and are still confused.
Many people entered recently at a time when the market was rewarding the very worst type of investment behavior. Unfortunately there aren't many guides and a lot of people end up looking at things like Twitter or the trending Youtube crypto videos, which is dominated by "How to make $1,00,000 by daytrading crypto" and influencers like CryptoNick.
So I'll try to put together a guide from what I've learned and some tips, on how to invest in this asset class. This is going to be Part 1, in another post later I'll post a systematic approach to valuation and picking individual assets.

Getting started: Tools and resources

You don't have to be a programmer or techie to invest in crypto, but you should first learn the basics of how it functions. I find that this video by 3Blue1Brown is the best introduction to what a blockchain actually is and how it functions, because it explains it clearly and simply with visuals while not dumbing it down too much. If you want a more ELI5 version with cute cartoons, then Upfolio has a nice beginner's intro to the blockchain concept and quick descriptions of top 100 cryptocurrencies. I also recommend simply going to Wikipedia and reading the blockchain and cryptocurrency page and clicking onto a few links in, read about POS vs POW...etc. Later on you'll need this information to understand why a specific use case may or may not benefit from a blockchain structure. Here is a quick summary of the common terms you should know.
Next you should arm yourself with some informational resources. I compiled a convenient list of useful tools and sites that I've used and find to be worthy of bookmarking:
Market information
Analysis tools
Portfolio Tracking
Youtube
I generally don't follow much on Youtube because it's dominated by idiocy like Trevon James and CryptoNick, but there are some that I think are worthy of following:

Constructing a Investment Strategy

I can't stress enough how important it is to construct an actual investment strategy. Organize what your goals are, what your risk tolerance is and how you plan to construct a portfolio to achieve those goals rather than just chasing the flavor of the week.
Why? Because it will force you to slow down and make decisions based on rational thinking rather than emotion, and will also inevitably lead you to think long term.

Setting ROI targets

Bluntly put, a lot of young investors who are in crypto have really unrealistic expectations about returns and risk.
A lot of them have never invested in any other type of financial asset, and hence many seem to consider a 10% ROI in a month to be unexciting, even though that is roughly what they should be aiming for.
I see a ton of people now on this sub and on other sites making their decisions with the expectation to double their money every month. This has lead a worrying amount of newbies putting in way too much money way too quickly into anything on the front page of CoinMarketCap with a low dollar value per coin hoping that crypto get them out of their debt or a life of drudgery in a cubicle. And all in the next year or two!
But its important to temper your hype about returns and realize why we had this exponential growth in the last year. The only reason we saw so much upward price action is because of fiat monetary base expansion from people FOMO-ing in due to media coverage. People are hoping to ride the bubble and sell to a greater fool in a few months, it is classic Greater Fool Theory. That's it. Its not because we are seeing any mass increase in adoption or actual widespread utility with cryptocurrency. We passed the $1,000 psychological marker again for Bitcoin which we hadn't seen since right before the Mt.Gox disaster, and it just snowballed the positivity as headline after headline came out about the price growth. However those unexciting returns of 10% a month are not only the norm, but much more healthy for an alternative investment class. Here are the annual returns for Bitcoin for the last few years:
Year BTC Return
2017 1,300%
2016 120%
2015 35%
2014 -60%
2013 5300%
2012 150 %
Keep in mind that a 10% monthly increase when compounded equals a 313% annual return, or over 3x your money. That may not sound exciting to those who entered recently and saw their money go 20x in a month on something like Tron before it crashed back down, but that 3X annual return is better than Bitcoin's return every year except the year right before the last market meltdown and 2017. I have been saying for a while now that we are due for a major correction and every investor now should be planning for that possibility through proper allocation and setting return expectations that are reasonable.
How to set a realistic ROI target
How do I set my own personal return target?
Basically I aim to achieve a portfolio return of roughly 385% annually (3.85X increase per year) or about 11.89% monthly return when compounded. How did I come up with that target? I base it on the average compounded annual growth return (CAGR) over the last 3 years on the entire market:
Year Total Crypto Market Cap
Jan 1, 2014: $10.73 billion
Jan 1, 2017: $615 billion
Compounded annual growth return (CAGR): (615/10.73)1/3 = 385%
My personal strategy is to sell my portfolio every December then buy back into the market at around the beginning of February and I intend to hold on average for 3 years, so this works for me but you may choose to do it a different way for your own reasons. I think this is a good average to aim for as a general guideline because it includes both the good years (2017) and the bad (2014). Once you have a target you can construct your risk profile (low risk vs. high risk category coins) in your portfolio. If you want to try for a higher CAGR than about 385% then you will likely need to go into more highly speculative picks. I can't tell you what return target you should set for yourself, but just make sure its not depended on you needing to achieve continual near vertical parabolic price action in small cap shillcoins because that isn't sustainable.
As the recent January dip showed while the core cryptos like Bitcoin and Ethereum would dip an X percentage, the altcoins would often drop double or triple that amount. Its a very fragile market, and the type of dumb behavior that people were engaging in that was profitable in a bull market (chasing pumps, going all in on a microcap shillcoin, having an attention span of a squirrel...etc) will lead to consequences. Just like they jumped on the crypto bandwagon without thinking about risk adjusted returns, they will just as quickly jump on whatever bandwagon will be used to blame for the deflation of the bubble, whether the blame is assigned to Wall Steet and Bitcoin futures or Asians or some government.
Nobody who pumped money into garbage without any use case or utility will accept that they themselves and their own unreasonable expectations for returns were the reason for the gross mispricing of most cryptocurrencies.

Risk Management

Quanitifying risk in crypto is surprisingly difficult because the historical returns aren't normally distributed, meaning that tools like Sharpe Ratio and other risk metrics can't really be used as intended. Instead you'll have to think of your own risk tolerance and qualitatively evaluate how risky each crypto is based on the team, the use case prospects, the amount of competition and the general market risk.
You can think of each crypto having a risk factor that is the summation of the general crypto market risk (Rm) as ultimately everything is tied to how Bitcoin does, but also its own inherent risk specific to its own goals (Ri).
Rt = Rm +Ri
The market risk is something you cannot avoid, if some China FUD comes out about regulations on Bitcoin then your investment in solid altcoin picks will go down too along with Bitcoin. This (Rm) return is essentially what risk you undertake to have a market ROI of 385% I talked about above. What you can minimize though is the Ri, the aset specific risks with the team, the likelihood they will actually deliver, the likelihood that their solution will be adopted. Unfortunately there is no one way to do this, you simply have to take the time to research and form your own opinion on how risky it really is before allocating a certain percentage to it. Consider the individual risk of each crypto and start looking for red flags:
  • guaranteed promises of large returns (protip: that's a Ponzi)
  • float allocations that give way too much to the founder
  • vague whitepapers
  • vague timelines
  • no clear use case
  • Github with no useful code and sparse activity
  • a team that is difficult to find information on or even worse anonymous
While all cryptocurrencies are a risky investments but generally you can break down cryptos into "low" risk core, medium risk speculative and high risk speculative
  • Low Risk Core - This is the exchange pairing cryptos and those that are well established. These are almost sure to be around in 5 years, and will recover after any bear market. Bitcoin, Litecoin and Ethereum are in this class of risk, and I would also argue Monero.
  • Medium Risk Speculative - These would be cryptos which generally have at least some product and are reasonably established, but higher risk than Core. Things like ZCash, Ripple, NEO..etc.
  • High Risk Speculative - This is anything created within the last few months, low caps, shillcoins, ICOs...etc. Most cryptos are in this category, most of them will be essentially worthless in 5 years.
How much risk should you take on? That depends on your own life situation but also it should be proportional to how much expertise you have in both financial analysis and technology. If you're a newbie who doesn't understand the tech and has no idea how to value assets, your risk tolerance should be lower than a programmer who understand the tech or a financial analyst who is experienced in valuation metrics.
Right now the trio of BTC-ETH-LTC account for 55% of the market cap, so between 50-70% of your portfolio in low Risk Core for newbies is a great starting point. Then you can go down to 25-30% as you gain confidence and experience. But always try to keep about 1/3rd in safe core positions. Don't go all in on speculative picks.
Core principles to minimize risk
  • Have the majority of your holdings in things you feel good holding for at least 2 years. Don't use the majority of your investment for day trading or short term investing.
  • Consider using dollar cost averaging to enter a position. This generally means investing a X amount over several periods, instead of at once. You can also use downward biased dollar cost averaging to mitigate against downward risk. For example instead of investing $1000 at once in a position at market price, you can buy $500 at the market price today then set several limit orders at slightly lower intervals (for example $250 at 5% lower than market price, $250 at 10% lower than market price). This way your average cost of acquisition will be lower if the crypto happens to decline over the short term.
  • Never chase a pump. Its simply too risky as its such an inefficient and unregulated market. If you continue to do it, most of your money losing decisions will be because you emotionally FOMO-ed into gambling on a symbol.
  • Invest what you can afford to lose. Don't have more than 5-10% of your net worth in crypto.
  • Consider what level of loss you can't accept in a position with a high risk factor, and use stop-limit orders to hedge against sudden crashes. Set you stop price at about 5-10% above your lowest limit. Stop-limit orders aren't perfect but they're better than having no hedging strategy for a risky microcap in case of some meltdown. Only you can determine what bags you are unwilling to hold.
  • Diversify across sectors and rebalance your allocations periodically. Keep about 1/3rd in low risk core holdings.
  • Have some fiat in reserve at a FDIC-insured exchange (ex. Gemini), and be ready to add to your winning positions on a pullback.
  • Remember you didn't actually make any money until you take some profits, so take do some profits when everyone else is at peak FOMO-ing bubble mode. You will also sleep much more comfortably once you take out the equivalent of your principal.

Portfolio Allocation

Along with thinking about your portfolio in terms of risk categories described above, I really find it helpful to think about the segments you are in. OnChainFX has some segment categorization but I generally like to bring it down to:
  • Core holdings - essentially the Low Risk Core segment
  • Platform segment
  • Privacy segment
  • Finance/Bank settlement segment
  • Enterprise Blockchain solutions segment
  • Promising/Innovative Tech segment
This is merely what I use, but I'm sure you can think of your own. The key point I have is to try to invest your medium and high risk picks in a segment you understand well, and in which you can relatively accurately judge risk. If you don't understand anything about how banking works or SWIFT or international settlement layers, don't invest in Stellar. If you have no idea how a supply chain functions, avoid investing in VeChain (even if it's being shilled to death on Reddit at the moment just like XRB was last month).
What's interesting is that often we see like-coin movement, for example when a coin from one segment pumps we will frequently see another similar coin in the same segment go up (think Stellar following after Ripple).
Consider the historic correlations between your holdings. Generally when Bitcoin pumps, altcoins dump but at what rate depends on the coin. When Bitcoin goes sideways we tend to see pumping in altcoins, while when Bitcoin goes down, everything goes down.
You should set price targets for each of your holdings, which is a whole separate discussion I'll go in Part 2 of the guide.

Summing it up

This was meant to get you think about what return targets you should set for your portfolio and how much risk you are willing to take and what strategies you can follow to mitigate that risk.
Returns around 385% (average crypto market CAGR over the last 3 years) would be a good target to aim for while remaining realistic, you can tweak it a bit based on your own risk tolerance. What category of risk your individual crypto picks should be will be determined by how much more greed you have for above average market return. A portfolio of 50% core holdings, 30% medium risk in a sector you understand well and 20% in high risk speculative is probably what the average portfolio should look like, with newbies going more towards 70% core and only 5% high risk speculative.
Just by thinking about these things you'll likely do better than most crypto investors, because most don't think about this stuff, to their own detriment.
submitted by arsonbunny to CryptoMarkets [link] [comments]

Back to the Future: 2014 Bitcoin increase, market Crash, and GPUs flood the market.

Image a world, where Bitcoin hits a new ATH of 1,000 USD! A new coin emerged, Litecoin. Using a new Algorithm called SCRYPT which makes GPU mining profitable and a thing again!
The story starts in January 2014. AMD Just released it's newest GPU, the R9 290X in late Oct. this thing a monster of a GPU, extremely powerful! A GPU mining crazy has just hit the internet and waves of Tech people are making mining farms to mine Crypto. AMD GPU's are priced at premiums with 290's/290x's OOS or for sale upwards of $700, $200 over MSRP. Everyone is gulping up used AMD GPUs. Ebay is awash with GPUs selling over MRSP even used ones!
I was there, I started out mining Litecoin to Litecoinpool.org, I had 3 Rigs I slapped together in crate boxes. Mixature of 7970/7950/7850's and a single a 4 GPU R9 290x rig (over 1400w!!!) using AMD AM3+ Motherboards and CPU's running Windows 8. I even near the end had a 750ti Rig, the new Maxwell, efficiently mining SRCYPT. I'm glad i lived in WA at the time The electric bill wasn't bad at all maybe 200-300 a month. I lived in Ellensburg getting that sweet Wind farm Electric rate. I Remember this time as I struggling to learn mining, overclockings for mining, and rig stability. In the short period I did this February 2014 to May of 2014 I made 48 Litecoins. This was a fun period for me because I loved messing with the hardware and GPUs even made decent profits from selling used hardware because it became such a premium then. In the end I quit mining and sold all my hard around May/June. Then moved back to CA to live with my mom to help support her after she lost her job and couldn't find work. I sold off my entire small operation. In the end the Market crashed, MT GOX was hacked millions of Bitcoin lost, and SCRYPT ASICs were released. I stopped paying much attention to the crypto-sphere and just HODLed the small Bitcoin that I had traded from the Litecoin I earned. Bitcoin dropped down to $200 by the end of that year.
All in all I just want everyone to take in the fact that this exact, I repeat EXACT, thing has happened before in the long forgotten past of 2014. Yet everyone is making it out like its some crazy big deal? every crypto is still at high comparing to previous years, GPUs have declined in price because mining has died down, and ASICs are coming out for almost every Algo.
To those of you still mining, keep on my brother! If I had kept mining, or kept on eye on the crypto sphere rather than walking away like most are right now, I could mined Etherum back in the early days of 2015 and now could of been extremely well off. Now, that im in it again and this time with more foresight and readiness. I'm here to stay through this rough times. hopefully to come out to see the otherside. I Only started(again) in june 2017 so I was late for this "gold rush" but mark my words the massive "Gold rush" for crypto has yet to come...
Some Articles back then
https://wccftech.com/gpu-miners-crash-2014-arrives-graphic-card-market-shrinking-fall-40/
https://www.ccn.com/amd-devastated-mining/
https://www.coindesk.com/litecoin-radeon-shortage/
TLDR: History repeats itself.
submitted by Xazax310 to gpumining [link] [comments]

Sharing my story and questioning how things are now, in regards to Bitcoin in general

First the story, and this will be raw and unedited and I have no idea how long it will be (which means it'll prob be a lot) Can't promise all my dates and time-frames of when things happened and such will be right but it's a relatively ok estimate:
I've been around for a while, more or less a lurker more than anything. Still young, I heard about, discussed with my dad of all people, and together we invested and made some money off of mining bitcoin back in 2013/2014, used some of that money to buy my first car actually. Which at that age, never having done anything else with money in my life, was actually amazing to me. Not to mention this was honestly really lucky.. I had heard some rumors about Mt. Gox and there was a several month period before the "incident" that the site was having some trouble which I thought to be strange, so combined with the rumors I decided to not leave my money there. First chance I got when this started,I looked for and I moved everything to another exchange called BTC-e. (Yes this was also dumb, but young and stupid me was still learning "how to computer"). My bitcoin lived there for a while, had great conversations with some others in the chat there. I really trusted that exchange. Future looked bright for bitcoin even after the price fell. I had sold some before it fell, which bought the aforementioned car, and put a nice chunk in a savings account for myself, which literally got my life started. I only left a small amount of bitcoin in the account. You see, for our mining we had actually bought some butterflylabs machines, which if anyone remembers... ended up being an amazingly scandolous company. Should have just bought bitcoin instead, but we were one of the first ones to order.. so there's that. We got our machines before most did, and we actually MADE money. Twice lucky! not nearly as much as we would have made had we just purchased bitcoin however(if I remember correctly the day we made the decision to buy BFL units bitcoin was like $13 and change... maybe not though.. I just remember seeing $13 it's significantly ingrained in my memory, that may have been a bit before BFL). So I was left dissapointed in the end after the price fell from it's high of like $1200 or something, and I had kinda moved on. Year went by, price still "low". I stopped watching bitcoin altogether. Just went through my college life, ended up studying systems administration (I love computers.. still do.. love my job now).
Then it was like one day I woke up and bitcoin was 10 grand. Geez. I logged into my surprisingly still there btc-e account and saw how much my "small amount" of bitcoin was worth. Made me smile. Then literally the next day...BAM guy gets arrested, claims he works there, they get raided. It's gone. done. I could do nothing but laugh. "well that was fun" was pretty much my thoughts.. of course it ends for me with an exchange failure like it has for so many others... More time went by, the site came back, they had tokens or whatever. (I think this was around the time BCH became a thing.. but I wasn't paying attention to that) I immediately withdrew to a wallet the amount they actually gave back.. the tokens I left hoping them "paying them back" would actually come through. Fast forward a few months, token value was up to like 80% of the bitcoins value, and they were just going to slow.. so I sold the tokens, got 80% of the bitcoin I had lost from them, withdrew to a wallet, closed the account and said goodbye. They died shortly after. I really miss that exchange. That bitcoin is still sitting in a wallet. Price went up/down dont really care it's of no risk to me. I'm really just watching, learning, and seeing what happens. I have used bitcoin for some small transactions, buying it and then immediately purchasing an item with it.. I've bought a few gift cards with it. I've done the opposite too, having some gift cards I didn't want that I sold for bitcoin. But I still find I can't really truly *use it* like I want to (literally everything).
So now to the btc/bch part
So as time went on keep hearing about "BCH", keep hearing about "BTC vs BCH" too. I hate drama. I really do, like with a passion. I asked about it a couple times on /bitcoin to see if I could get some answers.. trying to just understand what this all about. Couldn't get a real answer really, nothing but drama, drama everywhere. Yuck. I didn't want to hear it. Gave up, moved on in my usual silence... basically not caring about anything anyone said or told me, I didn't want to hear either side of the story if it was just going to be people yelling nonsense to get me to "Support" something. I don't support anything outside of the technology itself and moving forward really... I'm not one to pick favorites.
While I knew about this reddit thread too.. didn't bother asking.. I've always lurked /bitcoin.. that's just.. it's what I've done. it was/still is the normal. Whatever.. moving on. Market Price fell, people stopped talking about it.. as they always do, It's like weird I knew the price would fall eventually and when it did, how all of this was going to happen... chaos and eventual silence.. been through it before albeit on a smaller scale.
Anyway.. I follow @bitcoininfo on twitter.. and almost like a lightswitch one day he starts talking about BCH. I look in the timeline and see he made some big donation here, and since it's been basically all he talks about.. Bitcoin Cash. Decided to look up bitcoin vs bitcoin cash.. read the investopedia article on it.. now I finally understand. So BTC had the whole segwit2x thing.. which I remember.. I didn't look into it a lot though. It seems to have started there.. you BCH people basically said no to this and would rather have increased the blocksize.. so you forked and did exactly that.
I get the basics of the underlying technology. Or well, the benefits really. Transaction verification, confirmation, knowing where your money comes from, then the benefits of the currency... a limit of how many can be made.. whats lost is well.. lost.. oh well, we're not printing more lol.. This to reduce inflation. And also to an extent anonymity, though it seems that is less of a thing now. One of the bigger things is throwing the banking system out entirely. Still honestly not sure how I feel or where to stand on that last bit. But both BCH/BTC seemingly offer all that. I feel like the community is a bit.. well divided now. It makes me really wonder how this is going to play out in the end. Will it end in Abe Lincoln's words of "A house divided cannot stand" or will we actually get to that mass adoption goal that bitcoin has always needed.
Another problem I see is people like me.. people who want to use it but just kind of lurk in the background basically waiting for things to play out and see if we get an excuse to USE bitcoin are in the middle of all this. Now my thoughts are "oh god which one do I pick.. do I just invest in both? do I pick one? what if something happens and it forks AGAIN and now we have a community divided three ways.. four ways.. five ways?" Honestly if that happens and there is equalish support for each currency.. I think this is all done. Will come crashing down way faster than it came up. I can think of soooo many scenarios where this ends badly. It will greatly sadden me if this happens, seeing how bitcoin went from a seemingly great community of people looking to move Fintech forward in what has to be the most creative way I could ever imagine, to just a bunch of divided people fighting each other on what they think is right and getting nowhere because of it. I don't want to see that. Fighting really is non-nonsensical and useless.
Soo I leave you with a question.. why did this happen? why has the community been ripped in half? I do see BCH growing some so it looks like we'll continue this "War" of which one is best. I don't really know what I want to pick, the people who will want to adopt will not know what to pick, if this continues. In the long run this can't be good for ANYTHING. What will be reading in the history books? How bitcoin came, got popular, torn to pieces, and went? Or are we actually going to read how this technology changed the world for the better? Or are we going to read about how it came, got popular, was torn to pieces, and some other cryptocurrency came along that somehow avoided this issue, took over and became the norm? This will be a fun one to watch.. that's for sure. If it's finished before I'm dead anyway..
submitted by bcredeur97 to btc [link] [comments]

Chromapolis FUD: Stop the nonsense. (RE: The Ian Balina Scandal)

Chromapolis FUD: Stop the nonsense. (RE: The Ian Balina Scandal)
This piece was originally posted here by an anonymous writer, but I thought that it hadn't received enough views to truly defend the team. I'm sure many of you saw the Ian Balina ICO pool scandal here, but I thought it unfairly dragged down Chromaway's name with it.
----------------------------------------------
There has been massive amounts of FUD going around the ICO community–some accusations are well-founded, and I understand the confusion and anger. I’m not here to defend the actions of the team, and I’m not here to say that they have reacted in the best way possible. Nor am I here to defend the actions of Ian Balina. I am, however, here to defend the characters of the ChromaWay team and the accomplishments and contributions they have made to the blockchain industry.
First of all, Alex Mizrahi has contributed more to the development of this fascinating industry than 99.99% of ICO participants. The ChromaWay team, led by Alex, were the first to create a protocol capable of issuing tokens, called “colored coins” at the time (circa 2011~2012). The concept was so new at the time that he even had to quote Meni Rosenfield on what “colored coins” were:

By the original design bitcoins are fungible, acting as a neutral medium of exchange. However, by carefully tracking the origin of a given bitcoin, it is possible to “color” a set of coins to distinguish it from the rest. These coins can then have special properties supported by either an issuing agent or a Schelling point, and have value independent of the face value of the underlying bitcoins. Such colored bitcoins can be used for alternative currencies, commodity certificates, smart property, and other financial instruments such as stocks and bonds.

His role in the propagation of the idea of what we now call “tokens” played a huge role in expanding the blockchain industry into what it is today. In fact, when Vitalik introduced the concept of Ethereum to the world onstage at Bitcoin Miami 2014, he praised colored coins and its potential to radically change the scope of blockchain applications.

Above: Slide from Vitalik’s presentation in BTC Miami 2014 on the applications of blockchain and distributed consensus, following Satoshi’s creation of digital currency and blockchain in 2009. Vitalik described colored coins by saying, “the idea behind [colored coins] is okay, you have a blockchain and you have a currency on it, but what if you could put other currencies on the blockchain as well.”

Above: Jimmy Song, one of ChromaWay’s early hires, explains Colored Coins and ChromaWallet back in 2014 in Zug, Switzerland.
We’ve come a long way from the small grassroots and enthusiast developer communities in 2011, to now multimillion dollar companies appearing out of thin air during 2017-18. If the ChromaWay team were only in it for the money, wouldn’t they have thrown together a whitepaper and raised $30 million when ICOs were all the rage last year? No, they waited for a breakthrough in lowering the barrier of entry for developers that want to create dapps: Postchain.
The implications of their breakthrough in Postchain is huge. The internet as we know it today, “internet 2.0” was created on the backbones of relational databases and improved protocols. Postchain, very simply put, allows relational blockchains. This means that any developer, blockchain experienced or not, will be able to create dapps using SQL queries that they are already familiar with. If more people cared about the core technology and its potential to truly make dapps mainstream and less about getting “hyped up” coins at a higher price, these recent waves of FUD would not have been given much attention--what Ian decides to do with his allocation is his decision. Again, I am not defending his actions nor the team’s response to the FUD. Quite frankly, the Chromaway team has never had to deal with situations like these, and I’m sure stress played a huge part.
So what else has the team been doing since 2011? Short answer: a lot of research, ideas, and development, that we take for granted today.
What were you doing to help this revolution? They may have made mistakes--after all it is their first ICO. But it’s not fair to attack their character based on miscommunications and mistakes, that ultimately have no long-term effects on the project.
If you have a problem with the way they have communicated with the community and investors that is completely reasonable. But do not start acting out character assassinations on people that have been building infrastructure in the space for years simply because you are unhappy with their inexperience in PR relations and communications. Come at them with your concerns not your vitriol. Creating anonymous posts where all you do is bash on them without providing constructive criticism will only create more problems.
To add onto this, this article has been making the rounds and makes a lot of assumptions and straight out unfounded accusations. To be more specific near the end they call out an influencer known as “TheGobOne” as having been fined $400,000 by the SEC because of pooling. First of all TheGobOne is a Canadian citizen and is not governed by the SEC. And by his own word has not been in contact or been contacted by them in regards to pooling funds. To create entirely false talking points to support your narrative is as disingenuous as possible. Why the author felt the need to spread lies to try and support his point shows a clear alterior motive in trying to character assassinate influencers and team members associated with the project, rather than coming at them with purely fact based concerns.

Above: TheGobOne refuting claims he was fined by the SEC in his Discord Announcements channel earlier today.
Everyone in the blockchain space has been a bit on edge lately because of the serious market downturn. If you’re an investor you’ve been feeling the heat of the giant -70%+ losses on altcoins. Feeling frustrated at that is completely natural but in the end we have to make sure we don’t explode at projects and people that have little to do with our own down investments. There are teams and projects that are simply trying to build something they believe the space needs. Let’s try to make the crypto community stronger and come together to help these developers make the best projects they can. Without bombarding them with negativity for every mistake they make on the way there.
Ending on a lighter note, you can see Alex’s true character in a funnily relevant thread from 2012 titled “fuck this shit, I want my own blockchain!” where he says:
I understand that many community members won't like some of these features, but the goal here is to try new things, not to get some people rich. If you don't like it, then forget about it. If nobody likes it, I have other things to do.
submitted by cryptohan to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Why the "Trustee" sold YOUR BTC/BCH now in quiet and on open Markets..?

Dear Creditors! Finita la Commedia with the trustee's claims to act in the best interests of Mt.Gox creditors. RIP.
We need to URGENTLY act collectively on this revelation in a manner that will make SURE creditors interests are upheld in this bankruptcy process and justice is made. As the matters stand now we are drifting in the wrong direction.

Current State

1. Mt.Gox trustee sells 35,841 Bitcoin and 34,008 Bitcoin Cash for a total of 42,988,044,343 JPY (~405,167,934 USD).
This is because the total amount of claims that have been accepted until now is 45,609,593,503 JPY with YOUR bitcoin price fixed by the trustee in 2014 at 50,058.12 JPY (~471 USD). All this because the trustee wanted to be "in compliance with Japanese Bankruptcy Laws." not taking into account the reality of deflationary crypto assets.
After the current sell-of by the trustee, he has a total of 44,952,982,218 JPY in fiat assets almost enough to pay all the accepted claims of creditors by fixed price of 50,058.12 JPY (~471 USD) per BTC.
2. All Bitcoin Cash and other forks that belongs to creditors has just been unilaterally confiscated by the trustee's decision in favor of Mark Karpeles and other Gox shareholders with the following decision on page 12 par. II.3 of latest meeting report:
"It is my understanding that the cryptocurrencies split from BTC of the bankruptcy estate belong to the bankruptcy estate."
Do you see where this is drifting?
3. Moreover, the trustee in the last creditors meeting report on page 12 paragraph II.2 Says:
"I plan to consult with the court and determine further sale of BTC and BCC." https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180307_report.pdf
With the trustee now playing a role of amateur shady surprise trader on open markets, we are in a worse situation then we have thought. Just FYI, this "trader" have panic sold 18,000 (50%) of all BTC he sold at near bottom prices at around February 5 crashing the market even further. If this is not a blatant market manipulation then this is utter incompetence. See this: https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/971432146656202752
So at the current trajectory the trustee is planning to give ~24,750 user victims of Mt.Gox fiasco ~45 billion JPY (~430 Million USD) and Mark Karpeles with other Gox shareholders the remaining 166,344 Bitcoin with 168,177 Bitcoin Cash with the remaining forks!
Is this justice? Does this scenario suit US? NO!
All this bogus conduct is justified by the trustee "to be in compliance" with existing outdated Japanese bankruptcy laws.
Common sense, justice, moral values, honor or any other value besides what's in the outdated "Japanese bankruptcy law" does not play any role here. These people dragging feet for years while letting Mark Karpeles get away with the biggest scam in crypto history. Remember the "it's only technical" explanations while continuing to accept deposits from his own users while he perfectly well knows that his company is INSOLVENT?
Now it got to the point that this masterpiece Mr. Karpeles claims that because the remaining fiat value of btc left is much higher today then the value of all the btc his company possessed in 2014 it is somehow makes Mt.Gox "solvent". Huh? Didn't he loose more than 75% of all crypto assets he held and this state remains to this day? Yes? Then his company is INSOLVENT! Period.
Any other type of bogus calculation to make a thief rich and proud of himself on the misery of tenth's of thousands of users whose trust he has abused is nothing short of preposterous and should be challenged in the supreme court at the very least!

Proposals

So what can be done? I propose the following:
A. Prepare what ever necessary legal proposal to change the bankruptcy law in Japan to take into account the new reality of deflationary monetary assets/currencies.
The Japanese bankruptcy law as it stands today is one sided, outdated and not reflecting on the reality of existence of appreciating (deflationary) assets like crypto, some stocks, real estate in a growing market.
We need a specific change that when the bankruptcy deals with holding appreciating assets then the initial asset exchange rate to JPY ($483) will be used as an "assessment" price only to determine the Pro-Rata % amount of each creditors portion of the assets at the time of bankrupt entity's collapse.
The "actual" exchange rate will be determined by the assets price at the time of liquidation of those assets for JPY or distribution.
In this case the creditors will receive their rightfully owned percent of the assets in the time of distribution/conversion. This is the only just way to avoid a scenario when a bankrupt insolvent entity suddenly claims to become "solvent" during the process of bankruptcy proceedings because of prematurely determining the exchange rate of the assets before hand.
B. Prepare what ever needed application to Japans supreme court to freeze any distribution to Mt.Gox shareholders until the necessary amendments to the bankruptcy law are passed.
C. Stop the Mt.Gox trustee trader from selling more BTC in a surprise and anonymous manner. Until the final ruling by the supreme court about the belonging of the crypto assets held by the trustee either to Mt.Gox creditors or shareholders is decided. The Mt.Gox Trustee has no right to sell or trade with these assets as he sees fit.
D. Prepare a lawsuit against MtGox/sharehoders for unjust enrichment/conversion and get a preemptive lien/garnishment against the distribution that might go to them. (proposed by jespow).
E. We as Mt.Gox creditors are not organized in due manner to effectively enforce our interests. We need one UNIFIED representative body to act on our behalf in this bankruptcy saga.
I propose we set up for all creditors a voting process through which we will be able to elect "Mt.Gox creditors representative counsel". People we absolutely trust to think and act in accordance with the best interests of the creditors. These people can be big creditors (for example, Josh Jones CEO and Founder of Bitcoin Builder), Other people that are not creditors but have proven themselves over the years to be on the side of the creditors like Jesse Powell jespow the CEO and owner of Kraken, he has done a lot over the years to help us. You can read his proposals on here: https://www.reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/7dyr74/re_inquiries_about_mtgox_disbursements_and/
Unless we step up our organizational game it's game over. I think the best and easiest for creditors would be communicating by email:
E1. We have a list of all the creditors from the list of acceptance or rejection for all claimants posted by the Mt.Gox trustee.
E2. We need to get from trustee or build an email list of all the creditors to send them periodic communication like monthly news, voting proposals, status updates, password for forum, etc. All this managed by trusted party like Kraken preferably or with oversight by them with unsubscribe option.
E3. We need more than 50% of the creditors to join this list preferably to claim we have the majority of creditors support in courts. Best for this process to be all inclusive not requiring any mandatory financial contributions because of the fact that many investors got themselves into debt and financial hardships by Gox fiasco. If a creditor that was not active until now, can't help financially but can commit his support by voting or pledging some financial support once the successful distribution of BTC is made then this is a big win.
E4. We probably need a new forum. Best would be to allow only the original email addresses of Mt.Gox creditors to set up accounts there to avoid trolls signing up and ruining or influencing our decision making. Also new accounts could be set up for trusted people after review by the moderator and marked as such. Example: Lawyer, People the creditors hire for different jobs, etc.
All of the above together with monthly or weekly updates can create a positive momentum and keep this issue afloat with a lot of new organizational ideas coming in and helping improve our overall chance as creditors to win this battle for the benefit of all of us and the crypto community!
Please keep your comments and info constructive! Suggest names for possible representative council members, ping users, post ideas, let's get this brainstormed.
Pinging for input:
jespow -- Kraken CEO
andypagonthemove --Coordinating Mtgoxlegal.com
P.S. I apologize for the long post. Thank you for your time & contribution!
submitted by -kvb to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

A word of caution. All major exchanges are not even fiat gateways. The actual fiat in the system is likely grossly overestimated. Crypto is decoupled from USD. Implications.

First of all i should disclose i'm fully out of crypto since last Sunday, i'm just waiting for my EUR wire from Bitstamp as that has been my gateway since 2014. I would like to thank bitcoinmarkets for the good times, i've been around for a long time but not really participating that much, and even when I did i used throwaways. I decided to make this topic as a warning and to explain why I got out and why I think you should be very careful.
So we have a situation in which:
1) 80% or more of trading is in USDT (tether)
2) Coinmarket cap is an accomplice to Bitfinex which implies USDT-USD parity. To which degree this is intentional, irresponsibility or just incompetence I would not know. Basically conimarketplace lumps all USDT trades and prices with actual USD trades and prices. If you go there https://coinmarketcap.com/ and try to select PAIR, you get THIS. No USDT, even though most exchanges are USDT. Even if most of liquidity is USDT. Again, this is a major factor in implying parity along with what Bitfinex/Tether try to do. As if this wasn't enough, they also willingly or stupidly inflate USDT price itself. I have to remind you Coinmarketcap is THE point of reference for all cryptosphere. It's oscilating Alexa rank is 100-400. Betfair (real life gambling company) for example uses coinmarket price average for their own system. etc.
3) If/when tethebitfinex crashes, not only does bitfinex crash, it will crash all crypto pairings using USDT on all exchanges using USDT.
4) There are very few fiat gateways. Until recently I assumed the major(top) exchanges have some kind of fiat pairing. I mean.. any respectable exchange would have some way of actually getting money in and out, right? I didn't even think to check. Well, they don't. Literally all the major exchanges are USDT (and/or another stablecoin or proprietary coin) and nothing else. No USD, no EUR, no fiat whatsoever. https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/ . Only the 11th one has actual USD pairing. Didn't check lower but most exchanges don't have fiat. I did a full check on Binance myself as it's the biggest exchange and I had an account there for lulz. There is no fiat.
What does this mean? It means that an allegedly 200 BILLION market cap of all crypto has a fiat gateway of only a couple of exchanges. Most exchanges not using any fiat are not only immune to the risk, they offload risk on the much smaller exchanges that are fiat gateways. And on clients, of course. The cash side of the actual exchanges would need to have to siphon even a fraction of this are unimaginable. If any of these exchanges use crypto to evaluate their own fiat balance (it is illegal but crypto is hardly regulated or audited), they're fucked.
5) If the first four points looked bad, this one is by far the worst. The system is running on a presumed liquidity provided by Tether and on presumed USD capital. Even if tether was legit it's just 2b USD rolling 200b USD. And that 200b USD is just presumed quantity of USD that is in. We don't know how much USD is in the system, there could be and there probably is way less, as over the past 8 years or so crypto ran mostly on funny exchanges that could "provide" whatever USD value they wanted. More so, even if they went bust, people would usually get to withdraw crypto and store it on some other exchange. Even when an exchange was slowly withering, people just pulled out crypto and the exchange actual liquidity was hardly tested out. Or btc-e crashing or MtGox crashing. Their cash side crashed but "crypto" side did not crash. It was bailed out so to speak. So we have crypto running around that should've been worth 1/10 or 1/100 of it's price but it's instead running on par value with crypto on legit exchanges. This grossly inflates price.
Even if tether (or other stablecoin) is legit, it can be drained in a couple of hours. What happens to the pairings of crypto/USDT? People just trade one bitcoin at the presumable price of 6k for 6k USDT that are 100% backed but have no value because there's no USD in the treasury? Who is stupid enough to deposit USD there to get stuck waiting for another fool to bail him out by getting himself stuck?
edit: [Even if tether is 1%, it holds much more assumed/created value, which is the actual issue. Look at it this way. It only adds 1 cent to a real dollar market buy order for example. Each buy order made in a system that implies USDT:USD parity is now worth 1% more than a true USD purchase. Now repeat that buy order millions of times. It's not 1.01+1.01 times 1 million. It's more like 1.01$1.000.000 Each added value comes from USDT injection and USDT has to be liquid on the way down as well. It's added value to the market value is NOT it's market cap. That's a shitfest all "stablecoins" inject into the market, no matter how backed or audited they are.]
As I was saying, all the exchanges that are not holding any fiat are immune to any crash or actual liability. If/when cryptos fail, they'll give you back any number of cryptos/stablecoins you had, even if they're worthless. It's just entries in a database. If/when USDT fails, all it's corresponding crypto prices will go to infinity. If you're holding any USDT, you can't get out of the exchange because 1 btc will cost infinity. If you're in any margin position, no matter where your stops are you'll get margin called instead, as stops are just suggestions in high/extreme volatility. You can't get out through fiat cause there's no fiat.
Your only hope is you were actually holding crypto and they don't block withdrawals. Best case scenario you move your crypto to a fiat gateway exchange and hope to cash out there as fast as possible because it will have had become evident that cryptos were overvalued because of USDT (and even hypothetical USD in the system). Will most likely be too late as people that were already in fiat gateway exchanges already sold/cashed out. There will be enormous sell pressure. And no buyers.
The whole stablecoin issuance is idiotic and I just hope it crashes now and we won't see another bubble built on presumed capital, cause that will hurt way more people. All of this is a mess. Crypto is completely decoupled from real fiat now. The potential money that are in the crypto sphere is exponentially greater than available money to trade out of. Or maybe we should be grateful for stablecoins for finally crashing a system that would've crashed anyway in the long run.
submitted by 5ty54y5yh45 to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

Hitler finds out Bitcoin survived Mt.Gox crash Bitcoin Timelapse MtGox Drop 06.02.2014 to 08.02.2014 The Mt.Gox Story (Bitcoin Exchange) Bitcoin Mt. Gox FLASH CRASH! Bitcoins at $0.01 Each - YouTube The Curse of Mt Gox Still Haunts Us - Bitcoin Crash

Tokyo-based bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy last week, saying hackers had stolen the equivalent of $460 million from its online coffers. The news rocked the bitcoin world, and it ... 9 thoughts on “Mt. Gox & the Bitcoin Crash” eideard says: February 25, 2014 at 9:28 am I’d feel more secure with hawala in a Casablanca souk. Jonathan says: February 25, 2014 at 12:50 pm I’ve never quite understood how bitcoin could ever have been used as a workable currency, other than holding it as an asset – the value of individual coins is too big – and the limited pool pretty ... Mt Gox had liquid liabilities of 6.5bn yen (£38m), dwarfing its total assets of 3.84bn yen (£22.6m), the company said. It had 127,000 creditors in bankruptcy, just over 1,000 of whom are Japanese. The Mt. Gox hack. On 7 February 2014, Mt. Gox stopped all bitcoin withdrawals, claiming that it was merely pausing withdrawal requests “to obtain a clear technical view of the currency process.” After a number of weeks of uncertainty, on 24 February 2014, the exchange suspended all trading and the website went offline. Mt. Gox was the largest Bitcoin exchange as of February 2014, handling over seventy percent of all transactions. It was launched on July 2010 and operated out of a humble building in Tokyo, Japan. It began as the brainchild of Jed McCaleb as a means of selling Magic the Gathering Trading Cards in a way that was similar to the way stocks are sold, but after seeing the potential of Bitcoin, he ...

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Hitler finds out Bitcoin survived Mt.Gox crash

Bitcoin tips: 1N5h1CZsM4rKbuQGHuP62EuPzCk7AaCpBs Somebody asked for something like this on reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/new/. Hitler finds out Bitcoin survived the Mt.Gox crash. Mt Gox still haunts us and is contributing to the panic sell-off happening in the market right now. Mix that with fear and uncertainty about what happens next for Bitcoin and you have the perfect ... The rise & crash and burn of Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox Follow the story on http://www.digitaldojos.com Web links: Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kidguru Conta... Clip taken from Digital Asset News Channel - ️ https://youtu.be/fdrWwnNpQOo GREAT NEWS! Mt. GOX To DUMP 150,000 BITCOIN. Market CRASH or BIG OPPORTUNITY? ... Donate: 1piwo7t59rr4SR78CWpYJpt5WM6iCy11Y Bitcoin Timelapse MtGox Drop 06.02.2014 to 08.02.2014 - Bitstamp Price from bitcoinity.org Original files available...

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