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Small reviews of (I think) all incremental games I've ever played on Android
I don't know if this will be useful to anyone. So I write a line or two about every game I play, and decided to find all the incremental in my game journal and post them here. It starts with the latest games I've played and I think goes back to several years back. One thing I've realized is I have such a love-hate-hate relationship with this genre since I think I've hated 90% of the games and 100% of myself after each incremental phase. I usually angrily stop playing them for a while and restart them again, so this is more or less a journal of addiction, I suppose. THE BEST GAMES I'VE PLAYED ARE THESE (no order):
Honorable Mention: Eggs, Inc The rest: more or less hated it Additional comment if you decide to scan through it, I complain a lot, so it is perfectly reasonable and normal to think, "why the fuck are you even playing these games, idiot??". ------ Time Idle RPG This game was confusing. It tells me the game's resources is time, where you get 1 of it every second, but that's not really something as unique as I assumed. It would have been cool if time as resources meant you used it to deal with something related to time. Maybe time travel? Maybe slowing and speeding time? Instead time as resource buys you stuff like a library. And then you buy a camp or something. Honestly, I wasn't really feeling it. 2 Path of Idling The biggest cardinal sin for me when it comes to incremental is when a game has a lot of features and it just completely throws them all at you instantly. The joy of a great incremental is how things slowly open up and each new achievement feels progress. The game is a RPG game and these are the things that opened up for me in the first few hours. Combat which includes normal fighting, dungeon, raid, boss, PVP (locked, but it just needs an ascend, which I haven't done) Skills Hero upgrades which include Passive (strength, defence, stamina, intelligence), Train, and a huge Tree Town which you can buy workers who get you various things like gold, orbs, knowledge, etc. You can upgrade stuff here. Quest that also includes Perks and Skill quests. Gear which 5 equipment slots, plus craft plus trade plus smelt Also gear for your Pet, which is also another tab! Now, here is the thing. Because I have all of this pretty much instantly, I don't really know which ones are helping me go past a well. How is adding 10 points in strength helping me? Should I have added five in strength instead and five in defence? I have already bought 20 or so upgrades in the Tree, but I have no idea if I am made the optimal choice. There is no real excitement with getting new gear. And so on. The dev has added a lot of features, now it's time to rework the game, and have the features take their time. 2 Idle Slayer The game is like a super simple platformer. Your character is running and any enemy it hits, it automatically slays it. There is no HP, and all enemies die in one shot. Your only active play is jumping occasionally to grab coins or hit the flying enemies. Also, you have a run skill that has a cool down. With the coins, we get new weapons that give us more coins. Enemies give us souls which is used for the prestige system that provides us with an interesting skill tree which provides a lot of choices on the path you want to do in terms of upgrades. So far excellent, however, the game has an extremely serious issue of pacing. The game initially progresses so fast that in the first hour or so, you get almost all the weapons aside from the last two, which then grinds down to a snail pace. You can upgrade your past weapons, but they never really get into play again. Reaching high levels of past weapons sometimes gave me upgrades of that weapon of 10,000% but they still did nothing to my overall coin per second. I think the pacing needs to be fully reworked. It would have been nice to get new weapons after certain prestige cycles, so that every new weapon feels like we have passed a significant wall. The best part of an incremental game for me is to face a wall, and when I finally break it, I feel powerful again for a while. This game feels like this though, powerful powerful powerful powerful WALL........break it....WALL. And so on. I'm still playing it as I want to get some of the skills, but I feel like it could have been so much better. 4 Exponential Idle A very back to the foundation kind of incremental. The premise is that you are a student and working on a formula. There is a neat story where as you progress in the game, your character progresses through university. Each upgrade gives you more and more automation until I reached a stage where I would check back once every 2 or 3 days, click a 2nd layer prestige reset, and close it. Meaning the game was something like 5 seconds of game player every 2 days. I just opened it for this review and realized I had reached the end game. The story wraps up and it tells me "You can take a rest. Travel a bit. Go outside!" NO, DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO GAME. 3 Factoid Factoid & Spark should have the same review as they are almost the same game with only small differences. The games are the most basic kind of incremental, where you buy something with resources, until you get the next thing which gives you more of the resources. Both give you upgrades to speed things up, and finally prestige and it's own prestige upgrades. That's it. It's nice little change of pace from all the recent incremental that sometimes do too much, but obviously due to the very simple nature of it, it does eventually feel pointless, specially after you more or less open up everything and the prestige upgrades just keep repeating. 3 Spark Factoid & Spark should have the same review as they are almost the same game with only small differences. The games are the most basic kind of incremental, where you buy something with resources, until you get the next thing which gives you more of the resources. Both give you upgrades to speed things up, and finally prestige and it's own prestige upgrades. That's it. It's nice little change of pace from all the recent incremental that sometimes do too much, but obviously due to the very simple nature of it, it does eventually feel pointless, specially after you more or less open up everything and the prestige upgrades just keep repeating. 3 Antimatter Dimensions Easily top 5 incremental on mobile. Does everything perfectly. You progress nicely, and when new features open it, not only is it rewarding but more importantly, it keeps adding new dimensions (lol) to the game. I'd at the end game as I write this, and I realize that there was no point in the game where it felt stale. Each new prestige layer made the game feel fresh and almost like a new incremental game. 5 Melvor Idle It seems this game was mainly aimed at Runescape players, which is probably why it didn't click for me. It also run extremely slow on my phone which also played a part in me not really getting into. 2 A Girl Adrift The animation is really pretty and is a nice change of pace for incrementals, but I didn't really like the too much active play. Really had to keep going back and forth to different areas to do the fishing which got too repetitive for me. You travel to different areas of the map to catch fish, which you get points and then you upgrade stuff, but I didn't really find any real excitement about the upgrades because I kept having to go back to previous areas to fish similar creatures. 3 Archer: Danger Phone I'm really annoyed how terrible of a game this was. Two things I like, the TV show "Archer" and incremental games, and it's done in the most lazy manner. The game is the worst aspect of idle games where it's just a straight path of clicking the next upgrade with absolutely zero decision making. Every once in a while there is a mini game where Archer gets to shoot others but it's done in the most basic form of early 2000s flash games, where the animation budget is probably 3 dollars. Same static background and both enemies and Archer have just two animation frames. The absolute laziness of it is almost insulting to the player, because it feels like we aren't even worth the effort. There is an Archer story in the game which develops really fast, which is the only positive part, but no voice acting is again another evidence that the creators of the game weren't given any budget for this. 1 Home Quest This game is way too slow. You have to collect materials to build your settlement but everything takes time, so you click for a few seconds, and then you have to leave the game. Which I'm fine with, but the problem isn't the idle part of it, it's how the idle part of it combines with constant checking of the game which annoys me. I like an idle game where you forget to start the game for a day, you come up to a lot of resources, but this is a game which needs you to check back in every 30 minutes or an hour to really get anywhere. I felt that the micromanagement was getting worse as I progressed (without any actual thing to do when I am active in the game) that made me give up. 2 Idle Industry This is probably an interesting game, but I gave up because the one thing I really disliked was the amount of resources and manufacturing that very quickly opens to you. You can buy raw materials, and you can either sell these raw materials or turn them into finished goods and sell them either. And each of these has several upgrade options (increase selling price, increase production, etc). Without even really getting too deep into the game, I have around 20 raw materials and around 30 finished products. A satisfying part of this genre is to have things slow open up for you, which gives me a decent feeling of satisfaction. But the money I got would quickly open up new products, so I would just jump ahead and purchase more expensive ones, and after a while I had a lot of materials and products at zero, and was instead focusing on latter ones. 2 Masters of Madness Somewhat neat atmosphere and visuals, but too much active clicking. Click, upgrade to get more per clicks, get minions to get you some points without clicking, typical clicker, but with the added benefit of almost no idling. I like idling incrementals but clickers is a hard no from me. 1 Soda Dungeon 2 Basically similar to the first one, as far as I could tell. I did "finish" it but maybe I shouldn't have, since it really is the same thing from early on, specially once you get all the heroes and you kind of sort out which characters work best, then it's just the same. But because it was somewhat short and no real wall, it was at least easy to stick to it to the end. 2 Bacterial Takeover Played for a decent amount and was actually more interesting that I thought, given the buttload of ad incentives. You create and upgrade bacteria, attack planets, and eventually go into a blackhole to prestige. Most of the game was good, but the part that killed it for me was the prestige system. Once you prestige, planets get super easy to attack, which becomes a lot of active play. I realized that each prestige was taking me at least 30 minutes to get to where I was, and it was just meaningless clicking. It got to a point where I was putting off prestige because it seemed like it would be a hassle so I stopped. 2 LogRogue Cute graphics. The hero sort of hopping to hit the tiny monsters is cute to look at, but how long can you look at it and do nothing before you realize that it's boring? I suppose this is a game where it's just not for me. I don't like to have my phone open on a game and just watch it like a crazy person and do nothing. My rule is simple for incrementals. While the app is open, be active, if there isn't any choices to make, close the app while resources build up or whatever. I don't like it being open while I do nothing. 3 A Kittens Game Incremental games are so strange. I get in and out of the phases. I loved this for so long and so obsessively that I wanted to only play incremental games. And then, just like that, I was wondering why the fuck I was wasting my time with this. Has happened countless times before. But still probably the best incremental ever. 5 A Dark Room An incremental cult classic of sorts but I don't find it really matches the genre. There is a bit of incremental at the beginning with people huts and stuff but then its just a ascii exploring game, which wasn't interesting to me. 2 Little Healer Saw it mentioned in the Reddit incremental forum in one of the posts and thought it was a healer themed incremental which sounded neat. But it's like being a healer in a raid in World of Warcraft without any if the extras. Just a couple of bars representing your team mates and you healing them while they fight the boss. I didn't even like playing the healer in WoW so no way would I play this game. 1 Clickie Zoo Started playing for a few days until I realized there a beta released with the dev reworking the game completely from scratch and releasing it as "Idle Zoo Tycoon". So, played that instead but this seemed like a game I would enjoy anyway. 4 Idling to Rule the Gods The UI and one drawing if your character is really ugly enough to be distracting to me. The game, seemed interesting and I eventually was into it, but seems like a game that has been constantly being updated, which is not always a good thing, because features are obviously updated regularly to it, making the whole thing a bit bloaty. I guess, this is the problem with this game for me, it's too fat. Also, one main part of the game is that your character creates Shadow Clones up to a maximum limit. Which is fine except the clones can't be made in offline mode. This might not be a big deal in its original web browser game but that doesn't work as well in a mobile format. 2 Realm Grinder This is one of the really popular incremental and it's fanbase seems to love it for it's depth, but to be honest, I don't play these games for the depth, I play it for the simple dopamine rush of doing the same thing over and over again. It relaxes. Although, I didn't even get to the depth part because I dislike games where it rushes in the beginning. I constantly bought buildings, got spells, and got upgrades without even looking at the description. Apparently, later on, we can get complicated race upgades, which seems not what I'm looking for in such a genre. 2 Spaceplan A short (!!) incremental with an actual story (!!!). That's two cool points for it but unfortunately, the game mechanics of increment genre isn't so good. It's a space game with nice visuals and a great ending (cool music set to cool graphics) but the game itself wasn't really that fun. This same exact game would have been better in a different genre (maybe something like "Out There"?) 3 Zombidle Felt like idle games again and this is the kind of examples that kept me away. Too much clicking and seems like advancement will start to get irritating since it relies on IAPs 2 Eggs, Inc While I was playing it, Eggs, Inc was probably my favorite Android game I had ever played. But like most incremental games, there comes a moment when I suddenly stop and think, what am I doing? Because there is something fascinating about Incrementals. Their addictiveness is in a way the whole point. An incremental is less of a game and more an act of electronic addictiveness. What's the point? Eggs, Inc is a very well made and fun incremental but even the best in its genre is still pointless. 4 Castle Clicker Supposedly a mix of incremental and city building but didn't really find out since the clickings were way to much. I know this is supposed to be the genre but I like the incremental part more than the tapping part. This seemed to be a good way to hurt your fingers. 2 Endless Era This RPG clicker game is like other such games but with horrible GUI and animations. Tap tap tap. It's my fault for downloading such games. Why would I ever think this would be fun??? 1 Idle Quote An incremental game with a unique twist. This time we get to make up quotes! The first negative about the game and this irritates me a lot is most of the quotes are fake. A quick search on Google and this proves it. Quotes are generally attributed to Buddha or Ghandi or shit like that and it's usually fake like most quotes on the internet. This kills the major possible advantage of the game because I thought coming up with arbitrary words would at least give me some quotes to learn. Aside from the this, the game isn't fun either because it slows down very quickly meaning you combine words very slowly at a certain stage of the game and then it becomes a boring grind. 2 Monster Miser An incremental game with almost no graphics. We just see character portraits of monsters which we buy and then upgrade until we buy the next monster. Eventually we prestige which gives us multipliers. The only game choice is choosing between two monsters with each new monster with unique benefits. Annoyingly there is a max limit which I wish didn't exist because I wanted to prestige so much that I would be over powerful in upgrading like that "Idle Oil Tycoon". Still, pointless but reasonably fun. 3 Pocket Politics An incremental take on politics sounds fun but it's so generic that it could have been about anything. A Capitalist idle game or a cooking idle game, it wouldn't matter. IAP was also the usual shitty kind. 1 Time Clickers A shooter incremental sounds like a cool twist but it's not a FPS like I imagined it would be. I'm just stuck in a room and I was shooting blocks. Upgrades didn't give me any enjoyment since I was shooting fucking blocks. 1 Tap Tap Fish - Abyssrium I thought this was going to be relaxing incremental but the ridiculous and generic IAPs and all the social integeration spoil it. Too much time is spent in them asking you to buy or share or tweet or post or give them a blowjob. And there is nothing relaxing about that. 2 Cartoon 999 Incremental game about comic book writers, but not the marvel DC kind, it seemed to be the webcomic one and I think it's a Korean developer so all the characters and injokes made no sense to me. The whole thing was just targeted to a very specific audience. 2 Dungeon Manager Incremental games need to be simple but this is beyond simple, it's just upgrade a fighter to level 5, go to next dungeon character, do the same, and just continue without any of the delicious balancing of upgrades like other idle games. 2 Final Fortress Incremental games are already pointless but when it's super heavy on IAP than its also annoying, but when it always has bugs that doesn't register my offline earnings, then it just needs a uninstall in its face. The zombie skin was also crappy. 1 Mana Maker Here is how I know this clicker isn't very good. It doesn't make me hate all clickers and my life and mobile gaming in general for being so addictive and pointless. So fail, sorry. 2 Infinity Dungeon The usual incremental RPG that I should probably never play again. Starts simple enough and then gets more or a chore as you play. 1 Another incremental game which I had promised myself not to play anymore because they are so pointless and repetitive and endless. Well, this wasn't infinite and had a goal at 999 level so I thought it was good but while the humor was cute, the game did become very repetitive. Every 10 levels the slimes changed but after every 100 levels the whole thing restarted and while the monsters got stronger, I seemed to get even stronger. So the game became easier as I progressed and there was no more challenge. By level 800, I gave up. 2 Tap Dungeon RPG Okay, I'm running out of ways to complain about those incremental RPG games that all have similar problems. It starts off reasonably fast and fun but soon it seems like I am in a data entry job. Doing the same thing over and over again with little changes. 1 Dungeon 999 F: Secret of Slime Dungeon Another incremental game which I had promised myself not to play anymore because they are so pointless and repetitive and endless. Well, this wasn't infinite and had a goal at 999 level so I thought it was good but while the humor was cute, the game did become very repetitive. Every 10 levels the slimes changed but after every 100 levels the whole thing restarted and while the monsters got stronger, I seemed to get even stronger. So the game became easier as I progressed and there was no more challenge. By level 800, I gave up. 2 Tap Dungeon RPG Okay, I'm running out of ways to complain about those incremental RPG games that all have similar problems. It starts off reasonably fast and fun but soon it seems like I am in a data entry job. Doing the same thing over and over again with little changes. 1 Tower of Hero You start on the first floor of the tower and keep fighting your way up by summoning your heroes (by clicking) and recruiting other fighters, get upgrades, level up, and then, ugh, here is the typical incremental RPG part, restart, get items, and do it ALL over again. There is something fun about restarting and getting slowly stronger each time but it also feels so pointless after a while. Such a pointless genre now that I have played a billion of such titles, heh. 3 Pageboy Yet another incremental RPG which I have no idea why I downloaded because I'm sick of the genre. I played a pageboy to a knight who does the fighting while I collect the lot. I collect the loot, buy stuff for the knight, and eventually I restart to do the same thing again and get better items but this game I didn't even RESTART! Because fuck it! Fuck it! 2 Idle Warriors The story is cute. Human population is regressing while monster population is on the rise. So the humans start enslaving monsters to mine for them! The brave warriors beat the crap out of monsters, kidnap the bosses, and enslave them. The animation of monsters slaving away while speech balloons above them talk about their wife and children is funny. But the game itself is another RPG incremental which I should start staying away from. These games are like a chore for me nowadays because I'm doing the same crap again and again. The blame is probably on me because it seems like a reasonably solid game. But hey, fuck it, I PERSONALLY didn't enjoy it. 2 Tap! Tap! Faraway! Any game that is remotely like Tap Titan scares me. They are addictive at first and very fast moving but after every restart gets more and more annoying. It soon turns into a time eating activity with the player having to redo the initial levels to get relics to get better items to progress further to restart to get relics to and so on until the player realizes how much time he is putting in the game for a repetitive activity. 2 Auto RPG Now that is a title the game developers didn't spend too much time on. RPG battles are automatic but I can help out by clicking like a mad man. I started with one hero but would get additional members in my party as the story progressed. Party members receive skills as as they level up and while all the skill usage is automatic, it did give me a sense of progression which is extremely important in a RPG and which I think is usually lacking in incremental games. It usually starts feeling useless but in this game at least there are new maps, new members, and an actual end sight! There is an infinity stage once the last boss is defeated but I am glad the infinity stage happens AFTER the end and it's not the game itself. 4 Merchant Hire a hero and send on to battle. The battles is done automatically and takes time, starts with something short like 10 seconds with each battle taking longer. The loot is raw materials which can be used to craft equipment which also takes real life time with better items taking longer. The crafted items can either be sold or equipped to the hero to make him be able to fight stronger monsters. I was worried I would hate the longer crafting and fighting times because I hate games which I have to watch for a task to finish but even though the durations for longer, I had more to do. However, I don't know what would have happened in the end game because I gave up on it. New maps were exactly like the first map just with different heroes but the progression was similar in each level which felt that I was doing the exact same thing all over again but with longer task times. 2 Idle Oil Tycoon This is the best idle game I played. It's graphics aren't just minor, they are none existent. It's just numbers, so basic that my sister thought I was on a stock market app. It's such a simple concept. Invest, get oil, upgrade then like other idlers restart to get a bonus and do the full thing all over again. When I finished the game, I played the unlimited mode which I played until the unlimited mode couldn't handle the numbers anymore. 5 Soda Dungeon This kind-of Idle Dungeon was great. I started with weak ass fighters who would fight on my behalf while I collected the loot. I then got to use the lot to upgrade the sofa bar to recruit more adventurers. Not sure why it was a sofa bar. Maybe they wanted to make it a family game and not have alcohol? Sounds weird but the sofa element in a RPG game sounds weirder. The game only hit a brick for me when, like most other incremental games, there is no real closure. Once I thought I bet the big bad guy, it just goes on, harder but similar enough with no end in sight. Eventually, we have to stop playing right, but it always feels a bit like a let down when I don't feel like I have finished the game. 4 10 Billion Wives Kept Man Life The two games from this company, 10 Billion Wives and Kept Man Life, have similar strengths and weaknesses. I liked the silly premises from both. In 10BM, I had to get married as much as I could, using the loves I collect to marry more expensive wives! In KML, I'm a boyfriend who doesn't work and I have to please my career gf so she would take care of me. Both start reasonably fast and I was willing to grind through difficult parts but the end game is like a brick wall. Passing through it to get all the achievements is pretty much impossible unless one puts in way too many hours. And it's a shame because I really wanted to get all the achievements to see all the tiny little extra stuff. 3 Adventure Capitalist One of the better incremental games, but now that I am out of the short lived incremental fan phase, I realized how dumb the genre is. Tap, tap, tap, upgrade, do this a million times, reset, and do it all over again like a moron. The game does deserve credits for me acting like a moron and playing it for so long but I also cheated and got free cash and then if occupying became even more pointless. 3 The Monolith A combination of an incremental and a civilization building game seemed like an excellent idea and in some ways, it was, specially how we get to upgrade through the ages from cavemen to futuristic. But no offline feature means that the resets aren't enticing. 2 USSR Simulator An incremental game that has a great theme (USSR!) but absolutely horrible to enjoy, even though I did stick to it. After a certain upgrades, the game just turned into me popping in the game, clicking an upgrade and then forgetting about the game for a few days. 2 RPG Clicker They should call these games tappers not clickers. We are not clicking anything on a touchscreen device. Anyway, tap tap tap level up buy weapons tap tap and uninstall. 1 Logging Quest Logging Quest 2 [Review is for the original and its sequel] There is not much of a difference between the game. I actually played them both at the same time because the actual game is offline. You choose your hero, send them to a dungeon, and then come back to the game after a while to see how well they did. I thought an offline RPG like this might be interesting but then, if you don't really play a game, how much fun can it be? 1 Another pointless incremental. I was in an incremental phase and got so many incremental games that I know realize were absolutely pointless. Hit a tree, buy upgrades, get a new hero, and continue hitting a tree. Not much offline it seems which is what I like about incrementals. 1 Galaxy Clicker A space incremental that should have been a lot of fun. You get to upgrade your spaceship and buy new ones and explorer new planets. But first of all, the interface is so ugly that it makes playing the game less enjoyable. And a lot of things I didn't really get no matter how much I would play like the full exploring planets. The spaceships were nice, so it could have been fun. 2 Megatramp A pretty pointless incremental kind of game. You are a tramp and then you can collect money to buy upgrades to make more money, with no strategy needed, nor any effort needs to be made to hurt your brain cells. 1 Inflation RPG It supposed to be some kind of incremental RPG, I think, which has you resetting and getting more powerful and then fighting monsters to get insane levels. It is very unique but I couldn't get into it. 2 Widget RPG Are you fucking with me? This is button bashing rpg in the most extreme manner. You get a widget, so you don't even have to open the game and distract yourself from the button bushing. Just click the button and the game plays behind the scenes and gets you experience, loot, and kills. It's a ridiculous idea that is fun for a few minutes to see what they come up with but there is only so much button bashing you can do. 2 Capitalist Tycoon I downloaded this game because I was in an incremental/idle game phase and really enjoyed AdVenture Capitalist. But this game is nothing like that. On the surface, it seems similar, buy small investments, make money, buy bigger investments, and so on. But with this game, there is no offline mode, and you keep having to wake up managers, AND the goal is to see how much you make in one year. Bah. I prefer the incremental approach which makes you build and build and build, not try to rush it in just a year. 2 Clicking Bad An incremental clicking game that is themed after Breaking Bad. It is a fun idea it's a very simple game with little to do aside from the obvious of upgrading and upgrading. The only twist might be to balance out making lots of money selling drugs and not attracting the law but even that is only a small challenge at the start. Eventually, you will get enough upgrades to bring the law risk so down that it makes no impact on the game play. 2 Zombie Tapper A super basic incremental clicker game with a zombie team. Click click click to eat brains, use brains (?) to buy zombies to do the brain eating for you and then buy upgrades for your zombies, and buy new zombies and it all feels very pointless. 1 Bitcoin Billionaire I started to enjoy incremental games, but it needs to have a good offline mode, because I don’t want to just play a game where I keep tapping. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t play. I played it, and I played a lot of it, because I could reset the game (like most incremental games) and it gives you a small benefit where you could finish the full game a bit faster (it gives you bonus income). So, I kept finishing and resetting, and each time the start to finish would shorten, so I thought I would reach a stage where I could finish each start-to-finish in an instant! It didn’t happen. I got bored first. 3 Tap Titan An addictive tapping game. Just tap on the creatures, level up, get new skills, hire heroes, and then reset and to it all over again to progress further. It’s an incremental game where it depends on resets to progress, but no real offline bonus, so you have to be playing online. Which got boring, so I installed an app that does the tapping for me, which is actually a stupid way to play the game, but this isn’t an attempt to prove to anyone my intelligence. Anyway, thankfully something went wrong and my progress got deleted, WHICH WAS A GOOD THING, because the game was extremely addictive. 4 God Squad I’ve realized most incremental games are stupid. Tap on monsters to kill, collect gold, buy Roman Gods, level them up, fight other monsters, and then get bored. 1
NightOwl Halloween Drop: Descriptions, Info, FAQ and Tips
This will be the last I'll post in-regards to NightOwl drops.From now on drop info will be posted in the NightOwlseeds subreddit We can only pin 2 posts at a time, and it can get confusing for new and existing users. I will be updating this thread throughout the day, check last edited.- NightOwl subreddit linked,
"My pack has a blank label, how do I know what I have?"
Those are the "Secret Owl Society" packs, they come labeled with UV ink. Daz almost always provides a small blacklight keychain, use it to reveal the pack name.
"Can I make multiple orders and get the tester pack?"
As long as the combined total is $250, and hasn't been shipped yet, then you get 1 tester pack ($500 for 2 tester packs). A new bit of info, you get another tester pack per $250 spent, dealer's choice.
No, you don't need TSB Premium to make a purchase. This was an option for paying members to get a chance to access the drop early. Nothing was exclusive to premium, everyone has access to all the strains.
"I got a confirmation email, it still says "processing", should I be worried?"
As long as you have a confirmation email (maybe a paid email), then there's nothing to worry about your order has been received.
When purchasing NightOwl seeds from The Seed Bazaar on 10/10 at 12 AM, WHATEVER IS IN YOUR CART, ISN'T RESERVED. NEW TIPS ITEMS ARE ADDED/UPDATED ONE BY ONE. THERE ARE TWO PAGES OF SEEDS. IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR ORDER EMAIL [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) PREMIUM ISN'T NECESSARY. It's best to purchase what you want FAST, everything is and always has been limited in quantity. Don't leave the item(s) in your cart and go check your plants and start some LST or a res change, don't go start cleaning your tent, CHECK YOUR ITEMS OUT FAST. Orders usually are combined to help with shipping, this should help with ordering fast, and comments have been enabled at checkout too 👍. Last tip, make an account ahead of time, and login. Should help speed up the checkout process. Price per pack is $50 USD. Website and packaging say 3 seeds but typically get 5 no option for other pack sizes, plus free international shipping. This is the LAST SCHEDULED DROP from NightOwl till Valentine's day, which is expected to have the new F4 photo to auto cultivars. This is if there aren't any delays or setbacks in the timeline. The new NightOwl Sweater doesn't have a set date yet, could be some time in November. Chocolates are for the US only, food and customs don't go together. I THINK Daz said put it in the comments if you'd like the chocolate and he'd get back to you to figure out how to ship it (might have to pay for packaging and postage). Only If there are chocolates or ashtrays left, Daz will offer them up as an item on the seed bazaar for the cost of shipping which is usually around $15. Seedopoly boards are being sent out, pieces won't go out till the New Year, and the prizes are US only.
Spend $250 get an UNRELEASED TESTER PACK
Spend $500 get 2 UNRELEASED TESTER PACKS
Tester packs are labeled, but unknown till you receive it.
Scratch Card Game
Match the Mummies, scratch card game *WHILE SUPPLIES LAST, 1st COME 1st SERVED\*
Zamaldelica Express x Cosmic Queen 75/25 Sativa/Indica 75-80 days from sprout A long time coming, the Galaxy Brain is finally here! These large, branchy plants are covered with frost from the stems up! Piercingly sweet fruit scents and mouth coating flavors accompany a soaring euphoric head high, along with a relaxing body effect that doesn’t hamper your daily activities. I’m expecting this one to become a staple in the autoflower connoisseur’s garden. The reversal used was selected from over 40 Cosmic Queens and was extremely sativa dominant. I used this same expression for an unreleased seed run a few years back and she produced some of the most exquisitely beautiful and flavorful flowers. The female used was extremely pungent, with sappy and bulbous resin heads that stink up the whole room when burst. She also had extremely fat calyxes, providing massive amounts of surface area for the resin heads to call home.
Fugue State x Cosmic Queen True F1 Hybrid Limited Edition 75/25 Sativa/Indica 75-85 days from sprout 2-4 ounces average 3 Feminized Seeds Large, easy growing sativa dominant plants with heavy branching and intense crystal production. Super sweet, peppery, and buttery flavors accompany an intensely uplifting head high and an electrically charged body feel. The Spotless Mind name gives a tip of the cap to the Amnesia Haze in her heritage, which carries through to this cross. Overindulge and you will find yourself becoming forgetful and may experience recollection difficulties, but in a fun way. She has also been known to encourage bedroom activities, making for a nice nightstand stash. If you are looking for an anytime sativa that won’t make your mind race aimlessly, look no further. The same reversal that was used for Galaxy Brain and Cosmic Apprentice was also used for this Limited Edition.
Blue Microverse F4 x Cosmic Queen F4 *Quick Finish* 50/50 Sativa/Indica 65-75 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium to large plants with creamy blue raspberry lemonade golf ball buds running along the side branches, leading up to chunky top colas all wrapped in gooey, long-stemmed trichomes. Another beautiful true F1 hybrid with a 50/50 blend for a balanced, comforting mind and body experience. Great for relaxing after work when you’re ready to start winding down. For the reversal I used a stocky, faster finishing Cosmic Queen as the pollen donor which will help add vigor and potency while keeping the stretch down. **Be sure to keep airflow and humidity in check during the final few weeks, as the flower density can lead to bud rot in the wrong conditions. **
Strawberry Nuggets F4 x Cosmic Queen F4 *Quick Finish* 40/60 Sativa/Indica 65-75 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium-sized bushes with very sturdy branches that reach up and fill the canopy alongside the main cola. Rock hard nugs of pinks, purples, emerald, and blue hues will create all the bag appeal you could ask for, with a sweet cheesy strawberry funk that will have you smelling the bag again and again. Another true F1 and the heaviest indica hybrid of the lot, ranging from therapeutic to narcotic depending on your intake. Perfect for a dessert smoke or nightcap to relax your body before sailing off into the dream world. For the reversal I used a stocky, faster finishing Cosmic Queen as the pollen donor which will help add vigor and potency while keeping the stretch down. ***Be sure to keep an eye on these during early as the Strawberry Nuggets line can throw a ball or two during sexing, right where the side branches meet the main stem. It is rare, but can be brought about by stress or too strong an application of nutes during the sexing stage and seems to be most common when using humic acid. If you do see a ball pop up it can be removed and the plant will continue on fully female to finish her life. Also, keep airflow and humidity in check during the final few weeks, as the flower density can lead to bud rot in the wrong conditions. **\*
(Chem City Blues x Chemdogging) X Cosmic Queen F4 *Super Sativa* 60/40 Sativa/Indica 75-85 days from sprout 2-4 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect large, easy growing plants with satellite branches that reach up to the shoulders of the canopy, but be sure to stake her before she goes too far into flower or she will buckle under the weight of her blooms. The piercing old school perfumes she puts off range from skunky blueberries to creamy chems, and her soda can cola structure is sure to impress! This F1 polyhybrid is recommended for heavier smokers and those looking for help with pain management, and can be a bit too much too fast for the uninitiated. Carbon filters are always a must indoors, and best to make sure they’re in proper working order before running these. The Cosmic Queen reversal used for this cross was what I consider the super sativa expression of CQ. Tall, stretchy, thinner leaves, incredibly sweet resin, bag appeal, pest, and pm resistant with an elongated bud structure that is excellent for outdoors and in. Don’t miss out!
Mango Smile x Cosmic Queen F4 *Super Sativa* 70/30 Sativa/Indica 75-85 days from sprout 2-4 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect large, easy growing plants with sturdy branching and individual bud sites running their length, met with a small cola cluster at their end. This true F1 hybrid has beautiful tropical citrus flavors that will send you off on an island vacation, while the effects will leave you physically and mentally heightened and ready for anything the day throws your way! Extremely pleasant all day/everyday smoke, sure to be a crowd-pleaser. The Cosmic Queen reversal used for this cross was what I consider the super sativa expression of CQ. Tall, stretchy, thinner leaves, incredibly sweet resin, bag appeal, pest, and pm resistant with an elongated bud structure that is excellent for outdoors and in. Don’t miss out!
Forum Stomper x Cosmic Queen F4 *Quick Finish* 60/40 Sativa/Indica 65-75 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium-sized bushes with stout branches that reach up and form a canopy surrounding the main cola. Incredibly resinous chunky white nugs and dark forest green foliage fade to the deepest purples and blacks under cooler temperatures. She will have true F1 hybrid vigor and produce a delicious mix of forum cookies and cosmic cream flavors along with an abundance of “fall off the stalk” gland heads that will put everything else around your trimbin to shame. Effects are stoney, both physically and mentally, without the couchlock. She could easily fill the role of all day/everyday smoke if you have a decent tolerance already. For the reversal I used a stocky, faster finishing Cosmic Queen as the pollen donor which will help add vigor and potency while keeping the stretch down.
Super Orange Haze F4 X Cosmic Queen F4 *Super Sativa* 70/30 Sativa/Indica 70-80 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium-sized, easy growing plants with shorter side branches that reach about half the height of the main cola. Floral and sour citrus flavors with an uplifting effect that is great for early morning and afternoon indulgences. Bag appeal is also of no concern, as this true F1 hybrid has it in spades! The Cosmic Queen reversal used for this cross was what I consider the super sativa expression of CQ. Tall, stretchy, thinner leaves, incredibly sweet resin, bag appeal, pest, and pm resistant with an elongated bud structure that is excellent for outdoors and in. Don’t miss out!
Toof Decay x Cosmic Queen F4 *Quick Finish* 50/50 Sativa/Indica 65-75 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium-sized bushes with stout branches that almost reach the height of the main cola. Extremely dense buds covered in sweet bakery and candy-flavored resin that will leave you wanting more. Cooler temperatures can bring out some beautiful fall colors that only add to her visual appeal. Stoney without the narcotic effect, great for an afternoon delight or as a post-meal treat. For the reversal I used a stocky, faster finishing Cosmic Queen as the pollen donor which will help add vigor and potency to this true F1, while keeping the stretch down. ***Be sure to keep an eye on these during early as the Toof Decay line can throw a ball or two during sexing, right where the side branches meet the main stem. It is rare, but can be brought about by stress or too strong an application of nutes during the sexing stage and seems to be most common when using humic acid. If you do see a ball pop up it can be removed and the plant will continue on fully female to finish her life. Also, keep airflow and humidity in check during the final few weeks, as the flower density can lead to bud rot in the wrong conditions. **\*
Creme de la Soul F1 x Cosmic Queen F4 Quick Finish 50/50 Sativa/Indica 65-75 days from sprout 1.5-3 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect medium plants with stout satellite branches reaching up to the shoulders of the main colas. Dense nugs covered in oily resin ranging in smells from red berries and sneakers to creamy grapes, this F1 polyhybrid has a lot to offer! Cooler temperatures can bring on fades of reds and purples, making her an absolute beauty in her final days. She has a balanced physical and mental high, leaning towards the stoney end of the spectrum, and will make for a great evening smoke. For the reversal I used a stocky, faster finishing Cosmic Queen as the pollen donor which will help add vigor and potency while keeping the stretch down. Be sure to keep airflow and humidity in check during the final few weeks, as the flower density can lead to bud rot.
Supernatural OG x Cosmic Queen F4 Super Sativa 70/30 Sativa/Indica 75-85 days from sprout 2-4 ounce average 3 Feminized Seeds Expect large, easy growing plants with sturdy branching and individual bud sites running their length, met with a medium cola cluster at their ends, with a large main cola. This F1 poly hybrid is chock full of hazey goodness! Flavors range from effervescent lemon-lime, to heavy juniper laced gin and tonic. The juniper flavors are my personal favorite and tend to kick my ass and get me super stoney, while the citrusy ones are more motivational. There’s a variety of outstanding expressions to be found in these, all on the sativa end of the spectrum. The Cosmic Queen reversal used for this cross was what I consider the super sativa expression of CQ. Tall, stretchy, thinner leaves, incredibly sweet resin, bag appeal, pest and pm resistant with an elongated bud structure that is excellent for outdoors and in. Don’t miss out! Blessed by Hoodoo Moses I
Cosmic Apprentice (No Video)
Wizard’s Apprentice F4 x Cosmic Queen F4 Sativa 75 days from sprout "Ready to get heady? Crossing a big-bodied sativa dominant Wizard’s Apprentice to the rush inducing Cosmic Queen resulted in a whole new variety that will keep your head in the clouds! Large plants with denser buds than Cosmic Queen, an overload of frost, and nostril piercing neon sweet and hazey scents finishing right around 75 days. If you’re into uplifting sativa effects with chunkier buds then she is definitely worth checking out."
Wizard’s Apprentice F4 x Tyrone Stomper F6 Indica 70 days from sprout A long time coming, the Cheech Biggums is sure to impress! Using a heavy Cheech Wizard dominant Wizard’s Apprentice mated to the ever-impressive Tyrone Stomper will produce medium to large, extra vigorous true F1 hybrids with fruity OG gas flavors and an occasional piney/floral expression in a quick 70ish days from sprout. Picture of Post
February Drop Info
Copied from Daz's IG post.
Thank you all for your patience with me these past few weeks. I've been handling a lot of business behind the scenes in preparation for big things next year. 2020 was the year of staying off the radar with most of my big projects and not drawing any unnecessary attention. 2021 is the year of getting licensed and really showing you what it's all about! Thank you for your trust and faith in me during my overly cautious past few months/years. I won't let you down.🙏🌱🦉🌱🙏New photo to autos scheduled for the first half of 2021: Pre '98 Bubba Kush x Auto Skywalker F4 Dosidos x Forum Stomper F4 Purple Punch x Forum Stomper F4 Sunset Sherbet x Forum Stomper F4
Hi All, I am long-term Bitcoin enthusiast and a core developer of PascalCoin, an infinitely scalable and completely original cryptocurrency (https://www.pascalcoin.org). I am also the developer of BlockchainSQL.io, an SQL-backend for Bitcoin. I have been involved in Bitcoin community for a long time, and was a big supporter of hard-forking on Aug 1 2017 (https://redd.it/6i5qt1). Due to the recent alarming proposals and the method which they are being pushed, I feel I have a moral duty to speak out to warn against what could be fatal technical errors for BCH. As a full-time core developer at PascalCoin for last 18 months, I have dealt with DoS attacks, 51% attacks, timewarp attacks, mining centralisation attacks, out-of-consensus bugs, high-orphan rates and various other issues. Suffice to say, Layer-1 cryptocurrency development is hard and you don't really appreciate how fragile everything this until you work on a cryptocurrency codebase and manage a live mainnet (disclaimer: Albert Molina is main genius here, but it is a team effort). Infinite Block Size: I know there has been much discussion here about the safety of "big blocks", and I generally agree with those arguments. However, the analysis I've seen always assumes the attackers are economically rational actors. On that basis, yes, the laws of economics will incentivise miners to naturally regulate the size of minted blocks. However, this does not include "economically irrational actors" such as competing coins, governments, banks, etc. Allowing the natural limit of 32mb I think was a sensible move, but adding changes to the network protocol to allow 128mb blocks and then more, does not seem appropriate right now since:
Blocks are nowhere near the limit right now in BCH. There is plenty of time for security/technical/reliability analysis going forward. The BCH social contract has been established as "onchain" so the risk of a "Blockstream 1mb attack" arising again is far less than that of a serious network instability issue arising from some unknown attack exploiting 100mb blocks.
It makes much more sense to leave the blocksize at 32mb until blocks reach ~16mb at which point the technical, security and reliability issues can be better understood and a more informed decision can be made by the BCH community. Re-Enabling Opcodes: It's important to remember that these opcodes were disabled by Satoshi Nakamoto himself early on in the project due to ongoing bugs and instability arising out of the scripting engine (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures). Later as the scripts became standardized, this issue was forgotten/abandoned since it would require a hard-fork to reactivate them and Core developers were against HF's. Personally, I think it's a good idea to re-enable them, but only after:
Transaction Malleability is fixed: transactions can be malleated through many areas, including the scripts. What are the consequences of malleability on smart-contract scripts that pay out money based on complex rules? If an attacker can flip a few opcodes, suddenly someone that shouldn't be paid may get paid? I'm not aware of any such attack right now, but in my professional opinion, I believe such an attack would be possible and would not be convinced otherwise until a thorough security analysis was performed.
Testnet release: given the new large attack surface this introduces (remember, Satoshi disabled them himself for a reason), it makes sense to do a testnet deployment of this feature for at least 3-6 months. This is common practice in cryptocurrency development.
Infinite Script Size: One of the proposals I've seen that compliments re-enabling opcodes is to enable unbounded script sizes. From local discussions I've had with people promoting this idea, the "belief" is that miners will auto-regulate these as well. However, this is unproven. Unbounded script-size introduce signficant attack-vectors in the areas of denial of service and stack/memory overflow (especially with all opcodes). One attack I can foresee here is the introduction of quadratic-hashing attack but inside a single transaction! You have to understand that Ethereum had this problem from the onset and this is why they introduced the concept of "GAS". CPU power is a limited resource and if you don't pay for it, it will be completely abused. From what I've seen, there is no equivalent to GAS inside this proposal. To understand the seriousness of this issue, think back to Ethereum's network instability before the DAO hacker. It went through many periods of DoS attacks as hackers cleverly found oversights in their opcode/EVM engine. This is a serious, proven and real-world attack-vector and not one to be "solved later". The BCH network could be brought to a grinding halt and easily with unbounded script sizes that do not pay any gas. Voting/Signaling/Testnet: Even at PascalCoin, we go through a process of voting to enable all changes (https://www.pascalcoin.org/voting). We are barely a 10mill mcap coin and yet show more discipline with Voting, well-defined PIP design guidelines and Testnet releases. There is no excuse for BCH! It is a multi-billion dollar network and changes of this magnitude cannot be released so recklessly in such short time-frames. I hope these comments are considered by stakeholders of BCH and the community at large. I am not a maximalist and support BCH, but the last week has revealed there is a serious technical void in BCH! The Bitcoin Core devs may not know much about economics, but they did know some things about security & reliability of cryptocurrency software. PLEASE REMEMBER THERE ARE EXTREMELY TALENTED AND VICIOUS ATTACKERS OUT THERE and you need to be very careful with changes of this magnitude.
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BEPSwap is THORChain’s first go-to market product, built on a statechain to Binance Chain. BEPSwap was intended to only support BEP2 assets to minimise complexity with external chains. Two recent breakthroughs made by the THORChain development team in how to consider the cross-chain environment, as well as increasing the number of consensus participants, mean the team have now re-considered the scope of mainnet launch. Instead of launching the BEPSwap chain and decommissioning/hard-forking it into the THORChain mainnet, the team believe a network that supports cross-chain from the start can be built now. As such, THORChain will be launched, with support for Binance Chain, Bitcoin and Ethereum at Genesis. Binance Chain assets will be immediately supported, with Bitcoin and Ethereum enabled sometime in 2020. This will prevent large changes needing to occur post-mainnet launch. These two breakthroughs will be discussed in a future blog, but the team describe them as “Cross-chain Pools” and “Asynchronous Liquidity Delegation”.
Cross-chain pools solve two key problems: 1. Security 2. User Experience. The first is that the network only holds assets that are in pools which are staked against Rune. This massively simpifies the attack surface of the network, since the network only needs to ensure that the amount of bonded Rune is always double the amount of staked Rune. This means that even if network participants could attack the network, they wouldn’t, because they can only steal 50% of what they bonded. Thus no rational actor would steal external assets. The second characteristic is the User Experience, in that neither pegged tokens, nor atomic swaps are used. Users who wish to swap BTC to ETH send in on-chain BTC, and will receive on-chain ETH immediately (and vice versa). The target speed for BTC->ETH will be 20 seconds. The target speed for ETH->BTC will be 10 minutes (1 block). Users who wish to stake, will stake on-chain BTC with on-chain Rune. Withdrawing their assets will mean they receive on-chain BTC and on-chain Rune. No pegging out, and no pegging in.
Asynchronous Liquidity Delegation.
The second breakthrough is how liquidity is managed in the system. The initial design had a single large Threshold Signature pool that held all the funds. While extremely secure, large committee memberships mean very long signing speeds (minutes for 67/100), which impacts the user experience. The team wish to target a signing speed of less than 5 seconds, which means TSS pools should be less than 11 participants. However, due to the incentive structure created by Cross-chain pools, no node has an incentive to steal assets — even if they were given individual custody of assets. This is because they are always bonding twice as much Rune as there is Rune staked in pools. A node that “exit-scams” the network is the equivalent to simply selling 50% of their bonded Rune to assets and leaving disorderly. The network can rebuild the pools by simply disbursing the node’s abandoned bond back into the pools, and churning in a new node. Thus it is resilient to even internal attacks. This setup even works for a node that goes offline — while offline they are unable to respond and they get “fined” from their bond for every transaction they couldn’t honour in a timely fashion. The final design is a large TSS pool that acts as a global custodian of bonded assets and incoming liquidity ( 22 of 33 is the initial target number), with 11 2 of 3 “satellite” pools which hold 50% of the staked assets. This means nodes can be delegated to asynchronously send out liquidity (swaps and withdrawals) with the signing speed of 2 of 3, but the security of 22 of 33. Over time, the team will target 200 of 300 nodes, with 100 2 of 3 satellite pools.
The team are working on 4 parallel streams of effort. Cross-chain infrastructure has now been merged into a single repo called “THORNode”. 1. THORChain 2. Threshold Signature Scheme implementation 3. Front-end Integration for BEPSwap 4. Other development activities
A lot of new work was done to make the statechain cross-chain, with agnostic treatment to chain data. The first three chains will be BNB, BTC and ETH. A global re-factor of naming conventions surrounding cross-chain assets was made. * Add chain to pools * Issue140 if the ticker and coin are the same , thus we don’t need to swap just refund * Issue150 add GAS result in a pool in suspended status * Auto-seed the development environment after a deploy. * Add Asset and Symbol common structs * Get stage seeding on nightly deploys. * Continue importing asset into thornode * Change coin.Denom to coin.Asset * Replace “Token” → “asset” * issue135 update stake logic to check ticker match coin * issue151 add cors support * Feature/docker compose updated build pipelines * Issue138 fix signer use wrong symbol issue , which cause issue with refund * Per chain gas policy * Remove binance specific logic * Choose rune asset based on mainnet vs testnet * Genesis ceremony * Added seed and smoke-test targets to .PHONY !(https://miro.medium.com/max/3808/1*6HdyayI35M4ozW6s_eoGQQ.png) Assets will now be referred to as: CHAIN.SYMBOL
Work was done to clean up the code for peer-review, as well as implementing whitelisting for key-generation procedure. The TSS implementation is being integrated into the Statechain this week, in time to validate Asgard churn.
To ship mainnet, the team are aiming for this:
Feature complete with excellent swapping and staking experience.
Feature complete public RESTful API.
Feature complete with 22 of 33 Asgard, weekly churn, 2 of 3 satellite pools, asynchronous liquidity delegation and cross-chain support.
The team are working for these milestones.
RUNEVault: July 2019 shipped Telegram Bot: August 2019 shipped Bep2Bot: August 2019 shipped
Testnet: August 2019 shipped Community Testing: shipped
Internal Freeze: 20 November 2019 on-time Audit: 20 December 2019 on-time Genesis: 03 January 2020 on-time
[meta] [long and rambling] [philosophy] Flirting with Nihilism ; Is Conversation Pointless?
I used to have an ideal of conversation as being a Socratic dialogue: people ask probing questions of each other about important philosophical issues and reveal the mistakes in each other’s logic, ultimately reaching life-changing conclusions through the argument. Over the years, I have often tried to engage in such debate and while there have been some interesting discussions more typically it has been a pointless endeavor which simply leaves everyone involved convinced more thoroughly of their rightness and doubting the sanity of the others. To be sure, my abrasive style and personality have played a role, but this has itself in part come from the mistaken views of the world and human nature which I held. By the standard I used to hold, conversation is largely pointless. Now, of course, most normal people would characterize argument and debate as being very different than conversation. This is because their objectives in conversation are not trying to change someone’s mind but to exchange more basic information or simply enjoy each other’s company. To be sure, there is clear value in conversation of this sort, but it is not what I’m talking about here. What I’m suggesting is that the attempt to change someone’s mind by reason is generally impossible and not worth trying. We all have certain foundational beliefs which no one is likely to be able to change. What exactly these are varies widely by person: for some people it is religious, for others political, or philosophical principles (whether or not a person explicitly recognizes them as philosophy). But what is common about them is that no matter how sound an argument may appear to some “neutral”, disinterested third party, if someone tries to reason you out of these core positions, your mind will always be able to find a rationalization in response. And again regardless of how strong or weak this response is judged by our hypothetical third party, it will be sufficient to convince you that your position is right and likely cause you to be somewhat annoyed at the person making an “obviously” bad faith argument against something so basic. This is not, as it might appear to be, an argument that people are irrational nor that I am any different in this. It is simply a fundamental side-effect of the process of reasoning. One must have a basis upon which to operate; there is no green field to work from. Even Descartes’ brilliant argument showing how one can prove to themself that one exists, which is as close to pure reason without any external base as it is possible to get, itself relies upon certain foundations: the desirability of trying to prove such “trivial” matters; the value of pure reason as a source for truth. And it rapidly moves on by “the clear light of reason” to further argument which rests upon, essentially, “it seems obvious to me that…” This is, essentially, a generalization of Gödel's incompleteness theorems (not that I fully understand them and certainly don’t know how to prove it, but simply that I recognize this point is not a fundamentally original thought) and similar: we must always start with something which we simply believe and cannot prove. This may seem trivial, but I do not think it is. What it suggests to me is that the space for productive discussion in disagreement is far smaller than is often believe by those who, as I used to, believe that everything that matters could in theory be resolved by honest, wise intellectual exploration. Therefore, when we find ourselves in disagreement with others on a fundamental level, there may well be no resolution to be had other than the phrase I have so hated for so long: “agree to disagree”. Others are able to accept this with grace and move on. I have always been bothered by reaching such impasses. If we are in disagreement about an important issue which is the basis for much of our reasoning, then how could we come to any agreement on any of the things which follow as a result of that basic view? And how could we have meaningful discussion if we simply must avoid all consequences of a major section of our world view? And so, to me, the segmenting of discourse into “echo chambers” of various sorts makes perfect sense: people must have a shared foundation in order to be able to meaningfully communicate productively. And yet, that is not enough to make forward progress either, because while less irritating perhaps, discussion simply among those who agree is pointless too. So, then, if we cannot in general convince anyone else of anything that matters, nor do we wish to simply preach to the choir, what discourse could be useful?
Disagreement on facts rather than worldview
Among people who agree about, for instance, valid sources and other basic foundations, but who disagree about a particular fact, then linking to a source can actually be productive. This is as opposed to those who do not have such an agreement beforehand, where linking to a source can just be a self-congratulatory act which is unproductive.
Challenging one’s own worldview (or refining arguments ; this write-up’s category)
If you truly wish to have your own beliefs examined for whether or not they are incorrect, or their limitations; or if you simply want to try to refine and make more coherent something which you’ve vaguely thought, then it is useful to express your views not for the purpose of changing another’s opinion, but for the purpose of understanding your own. This is what this piece is for me: a response to my own thoughts, particularly set in motion about a month ago when the title occurred to me, about what is and isn’t useful ground for disagreement and debate.
Responding to an invitation to challenge another’s world view (limited circumstances)
This is something which is often presented but rarely genuine: whether intentionally or unintentionally many people who present themselves as looking to have their own views challenged are actually going to respond with rationalizations to anything presented. While that means that this apparent opening is often unproductive, there is a kernel of sincere and thoughtful people who are open to examining their beliefs and are looking for something to build on to do so. I actually consider this less important than it may often seem, as people’s desire for self-justification generally means that there is abundant material available for one who looks to understand any major viewpoint, so there is relatively little need to try to seek to be the one to minister to such a unicorn. But, since so much conversation is pointless, recognizing it and moving on rather than getting bogged down in it is more productive. There is a large realm of productive material, for us to gain knowledge on a more “superficial” level - much does have a shared basis, and we don’t see these issues visibly in, for instance, learning a language or learning history (even though there really are philosophical issues underlying both, but generally speaking a person can find much productive ground). Since our time is limited, it makes sense to pursue these unambiguously productive areas instead of beating our heads against a wall trying to convince others about things we consider important but which are foundational for them and which they have not sought to question. Examples of pointless discussions from unbridgeable views:
Bitcoin vs gold
While this might seem unintuitive as I have written about how I see Bitcoin and gold as having complementary strengths rather than being in opposition, what I mean when I express it as a pointless category is that trying to tell a Bitcoin fanatic about the uses of gold is a waste of time, just as trying to explain to Peter Schiff that it’s possible for people to create sustainable and meaningful value out of nothingness arbitrarily is a waste of time. The “Bitcoin-only” and “gold-only” camps will never change their mind as a result of someone trying to come in and ‘save’ or ‘educate’ them.
Tsla vs tslaq
Quite similarly: those who believe Tesla will save the world have essentially no common ground to discuss productively with those who believe Tesla will go bankrupt and vice versa. There are simply fundamental differences about approaches to reasoning which will not be surmounted by the surface arguments like “but he lands rockets!” or “look at the historical rates of cash burn!” Less obviously: the actual outcome will not resolve this either. Even if Tesla becomes wildly successful, the critics will still believe dishonest and unjustifiable actions to have been taken. Even if Tesla fails, the supporters will not believe Musk did anything wrong. World views are generally proof against what might seem from the outside to be events which should break them.
Given the general argument I’ve made, this should be fairly obvious. However, I spent a fair amount of time over the years arguing some of this from both sides (when I was much younger I was an evangelical Christian ; by college age I was an “evangelical atheist” ; in hindsight, I don’t consider either a good way to spend time).
This too follows clearly from the positions I’ve taken. No socialist is going to convince a capitalist that profit is evil. No capitalist will convince a socialist that profit is good. (Choose whatever dichotomy and examples you find appropriate.) Examples of productive discussions sharing a common foundation: These examples have been generally covered previously or are self-explanatory.
Specific facts between mutually respecting people
World view in rare cases where seeker wants introduction to different view
Skills (languages) or Bodies of knowledge (history)
This last is a potentially interesting one: even when changing a person’s mind may be impossible and unproductive, unbridgeable divides as far as resolving the disagreement can still be productive in terms of understanding what exactly the relative positions are. The socialist may not convince the capitalist of anything, but if they simply want to understand what the capitalist believes, that could be productive (and vice versa). Of course, if it devolves into trying to convince the other person they’re wrong rather than trying to understand their position, it goes back to being pointless. My choices: As a practical matter, what am I doing with these views?
Unfollowing and blocking easily on Twitter
I’ve been using Twitter for the first time lately. I find it interesting and useful in many ways. However, there is a potential to waste a lot of time there trying to argue things where the other person will never be convinced. Other people wiser than myself may well choose to hear all voices, but I wish to maintain an environment where I find what I’m reading useful and where the people I hear from are ones where I think I could engage productively or at least enjoyably. So I am unfollowing and blocking fairly quickly when I encounter views which I consider to indicate unbridgeable divides of opinion. Unfollow is my first step. If I wasn’t following the person previously and find something irritating they say, I will block rather than engage. In rare instances I will engage where I think there may be a productive discussion but I won’t go into extended arguments.
Maintain open discussion here
However, I have long held a different view for this subreddit: I specifically want to encourage and allow dissenting voices. I wish to avoid building an echo chamber here for a multitude of reasons, but in particular because I think it’s extremely important to try to avoid having a blindspot about critical issues with the system or will drawbacks to any proposed changes. In the framework of what I’ve discussed here, this could be seen as a combination of wanting to maintain space for understanding other views (even if we don’t change each other’s minds) as well as trying to deliberately hold open at least in some cases a willingness to change my mind. For instance, while I am strongly opposed to ever removing the 337 nillion cap, I want to allow such discussion and encourage anyone with those views to be free to express them. In other areas, like the block size cap, while I had held a stronger position toward larger blocks on principle, and still tend in that direction, some of the discussion previously here and more broadly on the other side has at least led me to more of a wait-and-see approach. Some various concluding thoughts:
Difference between random vs long-term relationships and discussion.
Twitter is an example where there is generally little to no strength of relationship as a starting point. This makes any challenging discussion more difficult and less likely to be productive and is part of my hair-trigger in unfollowing and blocking. However, in general I don’t tend to believe that in most cases a long-term relationship changes what ground is productive so much as it changes the calculation about whether one unproductive area justifies severing a connection. Necessarily those we have chosen to be part of our lives will not agree with us in everything, but there are likely to be areas not worth engaging in. For those we have no particular prior need or desire to have in our lives, I see no reason to accept any noise.
Low value in one-way communication upon determining different foundation (watching videos or twitter feed, etc. upon significant disagreement)
I tend to believe that without some shared common basis, there’s not much point in taking in what’s presented by someone. This can be seen as creating one’s own echo chamber, but the more positive way I might put it is that you have to have a reason to respect what a person is saying for it to be worthwhile to listen to them. Someone whose arguments you are likely to reject almost entirely is not worth listening to in the first place, as the goal should be to get new information or listen to someone who might change your views rather than to simply suffer through for the sake of having heard what can be known in advance to be something you will reject.
Tie-in to views on crypto: neither dedicated pumpers nor dedicated critics are useful. Nor are we looking to bring in people who aren’t interested. So what’s left? Those who are seekers are welcome and we should look to assist with helping people get exposure and broader knowledge of strengths and weaknesses.
Weighing the various perspectives on the overall issue I’ve put together here led me to this view which is a refinement of what I’ve thought for a while. We do not want mindless fanatics. And we do not want to try to convince people who aren’t interested or those who have already decided the whole concept is worthless. However, there is still a productive sliver left there: people who are interested in cryptocurrency but have not already set their opinions in stone. This fits in with the early mindset I had that we would want to have offering technical support as a core competency (and which is something I’ve been proud of this community doing well). This also fits into my original coin-a-day series, long defunct, trying to offer a view of the strengths and weaknesses of various cryptocurrencies. Perhaps this may be worth reviving in some form in the future, but the general concept at least fits my views here: offering a perspective to those who are looking for it, but not trying to convince anyone who has already decided and just wants to argue. As I have been discussing here, at this point my choice is generally: I make no attempt to change someone’s mind. Occasionally I’ll make one response I expect to be futile. Twitter is not suited towards meaningful in-depth communication and there is no established relationship to anchor a difficult discussion. In closer relationships, topics simply become no-go areas. I’ve probably swung too far towards avoidance from confrontation at this point, but I’ve got too much scar tissue from years of fruitless argument. Some examples of aspects I collected while putting this together https://twitter.com/Venado_0320/status/1125060447646957570 (twitter thread which shows a specific example of TSLA bull vs bear thesis and pointlessness of general discussion although room for discussion on one specific aspect) https://twitter.com/Jonathankrier1/status/1125922545679527936 (twitter thread example of production conversation - starting from same point of view but slightly different knowledge) https://old.reddit.com/RealTesla/comments/bmcy5q/teslacom_forum_5719_collision_while_using_auto/emwbohb/ (comment about people changing their mind over time) https://twitter.com/jposhaughnessy/status/1128005778445611010 (news and knowing what isn’t so)
BAT Community Weekly Update: 07/12/2019 to 07/18/2019 — Guest AMA w/ Alex Wilson & Patrick Duffy, Co-founders of The Giving Block, upcoming guest AMA w/ Corey Caplan (CEO) & Adam Knuckey (COO), Co-founders of Dolomite, Jonathan Sampson (Sr Developer Relations @ Brave) at e-Commerce Brasil 2019!
Welcome to this week’s BAT Community Update! Thank you to u/MurphD for his contributions! GUEST AMA: We're Alex Wilson and Patrick Duffy, Co-founders of The Giving Block. Ask us anything! The Giving Block helps nonprofits with all things cryptocurrency and blockchain. A technical solution for fundraising cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, education/training and developing meaningful partnerships with organizations in the space. For nonprofits who choose to go the extra mile, they advise on crypto fundraising strategies, and/or pair nonprofits up with partner crypto organizations, elevating fundraising and awareness outcomes. Ultimately, they help nonprofits build a crypto fundraising program, and a brand in the cryptocurrency industry. https://www.reddit.com/brave_browsecomments/ceetdn/were_alex_wilson_and_patrick_duffy_cofounders_of/ GUEST AMA: Upcoming Guest AMA with Corey Caplan (CEO) and Adam Knuckey (COO), Co-founders of Dolomite (July 24, 2019) Dolomite aims to make it easy to trade crypto right from your personal wallet. Dolomite is a non-custodial exchange, meaning you never need to deposit your crypto onto the exchange or even into a smart contract, and your assets only leave your wallet once the trade is completed. This keeps your crypto safe from exchange hacks while also eliminating deposit times and withdrawal limits. Dolomite also comes with a built-in portfolio tracker. By entering just your public wallet address, a detailed portfolio overview is generated for you with the value of your holdings over time as well as trades and transactions you've conducted from that wallet complete with cost basis. Learn more about Dolomite and submit questions for Corey & Adam, here:https://www.reddit.com/BATProject/comments/cf8cp6/upcoming_guest_ama_with_corey_caplan_ceo_and_adam/ BAT Community Merch Giveaway Winners! The winners for our BAT Community Daily Merch Giveaways for this week are:
Monday (Reddit): EddyTarantulo
Tuesday (Twitter): cryptovish
Wednesday (Facebook): Leo Ferrey
Thursday (Contributor Special): effrtlss
Click here to see pics of previous giveaway winners rocking their BAT/Brave merch!:https://imgur.com/a/lhF1G9I Be sure to tune in to our social media channels every Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and Friday to participate in our daily merch giveaways for your chance to win! CREATORS: Pic from the recent Content Creator workshop in Balikpapan, Indonesia (hosted by BAT Indonesia)https://twitter.com/BAT_Indonesia/status/1149611878521290753
Brave has the same DevTools as Chrome. And, Android will have a desktop features. BrendanEich @BrendanEich @magicspon @alex_mayorga @brave @Twitter Yes, check it out for yourself. Also we are rebasing our chromium-forked Android on brave-core, the same basis of desktop Brave, so Android will have devtools, extensions, more (think of first class Brave on Chromebooks). Jul 12 2019 What should you know about Brave? Well, here are a few things: Sampson @BraveSampson Lots of positive news about Brave Ads on Android. Here is what you should know: • Off by default • Surface as OS notifications • 70% of revenue to the user • No data leaks • Matched on-device • Matching improves with time (Machine Learning) • You control frequency Jul 13 2019 The CTR for Brave ads are how high? Sampson @BraveSampson A couple figures that blow my mind: 70%, and 22.3%. Users who opt-in to private Brave Ads receive 70% of the revenue for their attention. Brave Ads, which leverage machine learning and pay the user for their attention, have yielded a 22.3% CTR―10x the industry average! Jul 13 2019 Sampson presenting at the Technology and Innovation Forum! Brave Software @brave Tomorrow @BraveSampson will be presenting at the Technology and Innovation Forum of @eCommerce_Br to discuss @brave's privacy-by-default model and funding content on the Web. Details here: https://t.co/7ML0syyFHNhttps://t.co/bKGavVByjMJul 17 2019
BAT/Brave in the News:
A Feisty Google Adversary Tests How Much People Care About Privacy (Features Brave!) Gabriel Weinberg is taking aim at Google from a small building 20 miles west of Philadelphia that looks like a fake castle. An optometrist has an office downstairs. Mr. Weinberg’s company, DuckDuckGo, has become one of the feistiest adversaries of Google. Started over a decade ago, DuckDuckGo offers a privacy-focused alternative to Google’s search engine. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/15/technology/duckduckgo-private-search.html SLIVER.tv / Theta Network announces advertising partnership with Brave browser Starting today, two of the most widely-adopted blockchain projects will be joining forces for an advertising partnership: Brave and SLIVER.tv / Theta Network! SLIVER.tv / Theta will become a Verified Publisher in the Brave browser, while Brave will become a sponsor on SLIVER.tv, running ads along side our top streamers. https://medium.com/theta-network/sliver-tv-theta-network-announces-advertising-partnership-with-brave-browser-9482030c8f40
The dates are not so accurate here and there. There could be a little bit editing, but mostly, original conversation.
For a transparency and a big support to IF!
7/10 microhash - 06/28/2018 Thanks for the advice, guys. Already told eric that I'm interested, now it's up to the IF. dom - Today at 3:04 AM no, we do not work with Bosch on Jinn Fahad Sheikh - Today at 3:14 AM There is a lot to look forward to, didn't ya'll see the Project List that Edward posted in Medium? Coordicide being the most interesting one IMO. Come-from-Beyond - Today at 6:34 AM [bro which company will manufacture the jinn processors] Nvidia, joke :trollcfb: Eric Hop - Today at 5:10 AM If you are thinking there isn't much response from IF on Discord at the moment: we're all together at a summit working closely together. We're doing team building (we're from all over the globe) and work shops. Cross team presentations. And working in research groups to boost most projects forward. 7/20 David Sønstebø - Today at 1:27 AM The lightweight trinary hashfunction that IOTA set out to create with the Curl-P project will indeed be created by world leading cryptographers who specialize in exactly this field within cryptography. and yes, this has begun. 7/27 Ralf RottmannLast Monday at 5:53 PM 1.) IOTA Foundation has been very clear about the importance of manual tethering and that understanding deployment topologies will be an ongoing research topic. IOTA Foundation has also made clear, that better support for finding neighbours is a topic under active research. As the current status clearly shows, the solution is not as simple as what Nelson brings to the table. So in essence, Nelson forces IOTA Foundation to shift priorities. These things happen all the time and we are not that worried about it. We knew this ride wouldn't be easy! 2.) In an open source, permissionless environment, Roman and his team do not have to ask for permission and do not have to cooperate with anybody. They can do whatever they think might be valuable for the community, the network and its many different stakeholders. It will always be up to the users and various parties who are having an interest into the technology, to decide whether they see value being added or damage done. There is no objective judge empowered to decide. On the contrary, everyone is entitled to freely voice praise, concerns and opinion at any time. 3.) It already is public knowledge, that IOTA Foundation has been discussing ways to actively collaborate with Roman and his team a while ago but we couldn't agree around technicalities and commercials and ultimately mutually decided, that it would help the community at large, if Roman and his team stay completely independent and IOTA Foundation continues its research and development, with network topology just being a tiny part of the grand vision. 4.) Roman has publicly stated, that he is not interested in forking the project and only wants to do good for IOTA. I personally appreciate him being very clear about this, because it takes away uncertainty and speculation and I trust Roman to be genuinely honest with us. It does, however, come with the territory, that forks might happen at any time. I personally do not worry that much, should we ever see an attempt from anybody to embark on a fork. My decision to follow such an undertaking (with time, effort and money), would always be based on the likelihood of the effort to having enough funds to exist long-term. IOTA is not just about a network of nodes. Bringing the complete vision to life is an enormous effort, that will take years to come, the commitment of large corporate and public partners and affording a strong global team, to holding the pieces together. I have seen many similar initiatives failing. So far, IOTA Foundation has done very well and I'm confident we're just getting started. I hope this somewhat sets the record straight for what I've been stating on Twitter and elsewhere! dom Last Monday at 4:01 AM sidetangles are something that we are actively researching right now with a university. Quite frankly, at the current stage, they serve little purpose on the mainnet for any of our use cases or products we intend to build. dom Last Monday at 4:02 AM I'm not sure if they will be disabled by this fix entirely - I don't think so. But I will let our engineers answer that. iota yodler Yesterday at 11:35 PM is the Finish line in sight?! dom Yesterday at 11:36 PM [about recalim status] 85% David Sønstebø 07/20/2018 [Any news about IOTA and the e-krona in the past weeks? ] Nothing to report right now, in Scandinavia it is summer vacation David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:43 AM [any information about work with partners, like VW, Cisco, Schindler.... etc] @DvorNick When it comes to updates with organizations we work with, it is equally in their hands. It's unfortunately an incredibly tedious process, the people we work with are excited to get news out, but they have to jump through 10 hoops to get it approved David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:52 AM 1) If the community had to choose, what do you want: founders and Foundation members that can communicate in a friendly, transparent and open fashion, including the candid joking chats or shadows in ivory towers with personality cults? 2) I refuse to believe CfB has ever said: "I guarantee the price will be X" Our vision, our status updates etc. are 100% honest. That's what you need to focus on. We don't cater to speculators, we just put the truth out there, then you can interpret and speculate as you want Come-from-Beyond Last Wednesday at 4:55 AM I just said that IOTA will be #1 on CMC Come-from-Beyond Last Wednesday at 4:55 AM roughly 5 months left David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 4:58 AM @Ryan G. 100%. 6 degrees of separation is no joke. For IF right now it's more about quality over quantity, we got way more demand than we can supply, but there's certainly a few things that will come to mind David Sønstebø Last Wednesday at 5:08 AM [You have selected great advisors for IF, well done! question: how do you work with them in the organisation?] @ets Thanks. It differs from person to person, some we are working with on a nearly daily basis, others we speak with once a week about the bigger picture, or more actively within a certain project Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:07 PM @Th3B0Y We are actively engaging with Eclipse Foundation. They have governance figured out for large projects like ours. Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:15 PM [will IF always decide, for example, what changes and what doesn't on IRI?] @Th3B0Y No. That's exactly what Eclipse Foundation will bring to the table. It has clearly outlined and well established processes around these things and will help us to bring in large contributors (like corporate partners) down to individuals. We are already engaging with key partners who are keen to help contributing to our code base. Moving under Eclipse Foundation involves some complex legal matters around trademarks, which is why we are not "just doing it" right away. Ralf Rottmann Last Monday at 5:22 PM [ if the IF doesn't want something to change/be added but many devs want, will it be "merged" anyway? or will they simply have to fork it?] @Th3B0Y There will be a process around it with IOTA Foundation not having sort of the ultimate power. That was never our intention. It's just required at the early stage we're at. –– Of course, everybody can decide to fork at any time and everyone can decide to go with a fork. I personally would make such a decision primarily based on the likelihood of any fork to having enough funds for supporting an undertaking as big as the IOTA vision. We have to keep it mind, it's not just about setting up a basic network! (Something we tend to forget.) 7/30 Ralf Rottmann Last Tuesday at 12:11 AM Sergey Ivancheglo is a honorary member & founder. He is not legally employed by IOTA Foundation, as many others. CfB developed the first version of COO. IOTA Foundation runs and operates COO instances and has full access to the source code. Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 12:58 AM [CFB is creating a significant portion of Tangles technology] @Deep_Sea_Hopper Not since 2016 Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 12:58 AM CFB hasn't contributed to IRI (or any other IF maintained repo) to my knowledge since then Edward Greve Last Tuesday at 1:02 AM Ict, at the moment, is being worked on by CFB alone. We (IF) have seen the code, but are not working on it until he's "done" with it and then gives it to us to fix / polish / improve and release publicly. The same thing happened with IRI ~2 years ago... Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 1:07 AM @Deep_Sea_Hopper For the sake of completeness and because it has been said before: We were considering working with Roman's team but the technicalities and commercials haven't worked out. We are confident, that our very own teams will figure out a solution while at the same time spending our funds in line with our charitable, non-profit boundaries. -- There are some good news in this: We all seem to be completely aligned about the various problem statements. The various parties can now start working on fixes. Edward GreveLast Tuesday at 1:15 AM He is saying that Ict represents the swarm nodes, and doesn't expect them to work in the current mainnet environment due to his assumption that the Ict nodes and autopeered nodes will form separate clusters, with the vast majority of transactions happening outside of the Ict cluster. Edward GreveLast Tuesday at 1:21 AM Ideally, we would have a well-researched auto peering solution, which answers all of the open questions. I don't see it happening that quickly though. It's a complex problem. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:31 AM @lluisin I have explained it before: We did take a thorough look at Nelson and decided, that we leverage our engineering team, to address the problem of automatic peering. As a charitable non-profit foundation (sorry for constantly reminding everyone of this), we need to pick carefully, where we spend money. We currently cannot justify to enhance a "product" that we ultimately do not believe in as a solution to a core challenge. As towards collaboration with Roman in a professional capacity, we did discuss this openly with him and his brother but couldn't agree on the technicalities and commercials. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:39 AM Applied to what Roman and his team do, this means we can't invest into Field, which is not yet open source and not developed in the open. Same is true for Hercules. We could potentially invest into Nelson but don't think it's solving the problem the right way. We haven't done an exhaustively deep analysis. We haven't prepared a laundry list of points, that Roman and his team could work upon to make Nelson better. Nelson is not our product. We don't believe in it. Hence we're not "wasting" the Foundation's time and money on improving it. We (have to) live with the consequences it causes and instead ramp up our own efforts to eliminate the root issues. Thanks to the many donors who believe in the project, we have the funds to work on this for years to come and are confident that time and dedication will bring us there. Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 3:46 AM I absolutely understand that humans tend to jump on apparent short term fixes and it's extremely difficult to stay patient. And there is one other aspect: Workarounds like Nelson constantly challenge the network and our basic assumptions. They help surfacing what we don't know. It's not always fun, but it certainly helps driving IOTA forward! So we are eternally grateful for having Roman and every other community developer around. We also believe, there are vast commercial opportunities for the community in IOTA. Spending Foundation money on those just is a totally different story. For the Semko brothers there is absolutely nothing to worry about. There also is no attitude. I think this very open debate is a testament to exactly that. The community has asked for more transparency. We hopefully have established that. Since my very first day in this community, I always said what I mean. You can either ask for my honest opinion or should not ask me. It would have been way easier to respond with some generic paragraph about how much we appreciate every contribution and move on. The fact of the matter is: We are all in this together for a multitude of different reasons. That is what makes IOTA so fascinating. As the only party, who is a regularly audited charitable non-profit, we are legally required to make all of our decisions transparent. Hence we sometimes cannot rush out fixes, release untested software or do quick investment decisions. When the IOTA founders chose a non-profit foundation, they did so for a reason. One thing everyone can be absolutely assured at any time: IOTA Foundation is not in this for any commercial purposes. It has no shareholders. No beneficiaries. No owners. It is owned by itself. That's a major advantage. (And also, why I'm not at all nervous about the potential of any forks. Going with a fork that's not governed as a charitable non-profit would be borderline stupid.) Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 4:07 AM Getting back to Nelson: As Roman stated earlier, we had Mathew Yarger looking into Nelson. We do plan to send our findings and questions to Roman by the end of the week. Out of respect, I would leave it up to Roman whether he wants to share publicly and to which extend he sees value in keeping the community updated about our interaction. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 4:53 AM I'm back guys, has anyone reviewed my claim that current Nelson's strategy contradicts to what was recommended in that paper about reaching consensus? (https://www3.nd.edu/~mhaenggi/pubs/jstsp11.pdf) Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 5:04 AM [Okay so the lower rotation frequence creates wormholes? ] @PatriQ That’s actually the entire point. It’s a hard problem to solve. Needs research. Thoroughly reading relevant papers. Rushing out a workaround and hoping it “just works” is not the way the foundation can handle things. And we take the liberty to occasionally highlight this aspect. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 5:04 AM [Okay so the lower rotation frequence creates wormholes?] Higher rotation frequency does. Also make sure that you have not more than 3 active neighbors with manual tehtering we use 5-7 assuming that some neighbors will die PatriQLast Tuesday at 5:06 AM Okay so we figured out couple of points: 1# Higher rotation frequency creates wormholes. 2# Max 5-7 neighbors (thats included with Nelson) What else? Ralf RottmannLast Tuesday at 5:16 AM @Deep_Sea_Hopper We did an analysis and Roman is in touch with Mat. Come-from-BeyondLast Tuesday at 5:42 AM @PatriQ 2# Max 5-7 neighbors (thats included with Nelson) 3 neighbors if Nelson is used (assuming those neighbors are active ones) David SønstebøLast Tuesday at 9:34 AM Today has been an interesting one. Some topics need to be clarified right away: The IOTA Foundation is 100% supportive of any third party actors such as the Semko brothers, the IOTA project is an open and permissionless one; therefore everyone has the right to develop on top of it. In fact, the entire IOTA project is dependent on it. Independent entities, whether big or small, getting involved and developing in conjunction with or independent of the IOTA Foundation is a mantra we have been preaching since the very inception of IOTA. It is the vision we still have for the future of IOTA. As an open source project, this is crucial for success. Another vital aspect is a drastic improvement in communication, bilaterally between IF and third parties, as well as in general to the broader community. We are happy to say that this is the number one priority of the foundation at the moment. We know that people can become confused and begin to speculate, rightfully so, when there is a vacuum in communication. If something is going on with the network that we have not communicated beforehand, then Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt kicks in. What we are working on right now is weekly newsletters, weekly update blog posts on certain days, and a roadmap that is continually up to date, that will give everyone a clear insight into where the different projects are, both from development and research perspectives, as well are defined ETAs. The IOTA community is a smart and driven one, but no one can be expected to predict the future or read our minds; therefore it is incumbent upon the IOTA Foundation to communicate in a fashion that gives people predictable roadmaps and status updates to avoid excessive worrying. Finally, everyone should feel absolutely free to raise their opinions and ask whatever questions they feel like. At the end of the day we are all in this together, and while the work being conducted by IF now is more efficient and focused than ever before, it is ultimately our responsibility that this is reflected in our communication and thus permeates the attitude of the project overall. Come-from-BeyondLast Friday at 3:36 PM [Is it attacker led or just a bad fix in 1.5.2?] 1.5.2 is a first half of the fix, next version will deploy the other half Let's do totalizator, like horse-racing but in our case one with highest confirmation ratio will win? Come-from-BeyondLast Friday at 5:19 PM [when fix to the IRI?] Dunno, IF doesn't rush to release a fix, its goal not only to make users happy but also to analyze attacks and counterattacks 7/30 domYesterday at 5:27 PM network protocol and syncing is something we are looking deeper right now. But the network layer is the number one bottleneck of IOTA right now. domYesterday at 5:50 PM waiting on the Desktop release, then we will work on the Ledger integration. but the community already did a fantastic job there domYesterday at 5:51 PM yeh, Trinity Desktop will be amazing I really want to see an IOTA App Marketplace evolve around that, where people can then test various use cases. Like the TipBot, secure audit trails, timestamping documents, paying for storage etc. it can become a gateway for a sort of sandbox environment, where you can try these apps out and just contribute through that (experimenting with new IOTA-based apps). domYesterday at 6:02 PM btw, I think IOTA is one of the few projects where the community is contributing a lot of great development, making this really a more decentralized ecosystem. Ethereum has that, and maybe Bitcoin, but I don't know of any other project that has fully working core clients, libraries ,node deployment scripts and services (like the tipbot) like we do domYesterday at 6:43 PM [I was quoting David a few months ago where target was > 100 CTPS EOY 18] we still aim for that domYesterday at 6:48 PM [wasn't the tangle taken down regularly by attackers even with the COO? How is a large corp going to commit?] we have a technical roadmap and we stick to that - this includes achieving the KPI's mentioned above. Right now we have to resolve a lot of technical debt from previous years, but we are quickly catching up and making IRI more robust. Private Tangles are great for corporates to experiment right now. Ralf RottmannYesterday at 3:49 AM I understand the rationale behind it but don’t like how the idea, once people get used to it, might pave the way to transaction-fees. Of course everyone can built businesses on top of IOTA and that is a huge part of building an ecosystem. I just wouldn’t personally endorse the idea to prioritize value tx at this stage of the project. Not meant as an offense! Roman SemkoYesterday at 4:06 AM Not taken as offence, @Ralf Rottmann ! We are all grown ups to discuss this in a civilized manner. I am not intending to keep this tipsel algo. It is just one temporary node targeting to solve current bottleneck. Nothing more. I am of the same opinion as you on this one. Ralf RottmannYesterday at 4:08 AM Thanks, @Roman Semko. May I cross-post this to twitter? People seem to somehow think the two of us are enemies... I plan to add Hercules nodes to IOTA.FM over the weekend. If that doesn’t prove otherwise, I don’t know! 8/1 Come-from-BeyondToday at 8:02 AM [any hot news or maybe a riddle to tied us over until the next major development?] Have you seen Li-Fi demo transferring data over 1 km? Come-from-BeyondToday at 8:06 AM [Link please!] good that no, because it's classified :trollcfb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV3RpeJNvbU&feature=youtu.be David SønstebøToday at 2:26 AM LiFi is part of the start-up of me and @Come-from-Beyond yes, it's a natural extension of enabling a true mist of computing David SønstebøToday at 2:27 AM [Lifi is a JINN project?] @Crewtons Tied to Jinn Labs, not JINN 8/2 David SønstebøYesterday at 11:04 PM @everyone The IOTA Foundation is revamping and allocating more resources towards its communication strategy at the moment. We consider it pivotal for the success of the project to have a thriving community, a key ingredient in maintaining and growing that is to improve the communication from the Foundation to the community. As part of this new initiative, there will predictable/scheduled blog post updates from the Research, Engineering, Social and Biz Dev/Partnerships departments coming soon. Research will be posting a new topic delving into the nitty-gritty of IOTA every other Wednesday from now on, starting with today's piece by Alon Gal: https://twitter.com/iotatoken/status/1024656969590812673 DaveToday at 3:07 AM [Who is HusQy from the IF?] He is working on local snapshots, he will be announced soon green_protocolToday at 4:42 AM http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/products/lifi Philips Canada and Cisco Canada have demo'ed LIFI Come-from-BeyondToday at 6:52 AM [call me whatever, ban me if you want, but lifi seems really stupid] agree, so is WiFi and Bluetooth which are just radio which was invented 100 years ago :trollcfb: Come-from-BeyondToday at 6:55 AM [So, this laser demo, is this for connecting clusters in EC?] no, it's for connecting buildings in cities Come-from-BeyondToday at 7:03 AM [How I’m going to use lifi on my grandma village! They don’t have light on the streets] that was just few milliWt demo, use few killoWt one and you'll be able to play Star Wars with your friends Come-from-BeyondToday at 7:05 AM [How you gonna power that 1kW laser] connect to neighbors Bitcoin mining farm, he won't notice that I connected :trollface: [But LiFi isn't new.. What is so special about your LiFi CFB?] 5G is not new too, just radio :trollcfb: Eric HopToday at 8:51 AM [Can we expect an Qubic update 3.8.?] Yep, of course. 3rd of the month. 8/3 Edward GreveYesterday at 7:37 PM @everyone IRI 1.5.3 is out now! The new version of IRI addresses the blowball problem seen on Mainnet. Download IRI 1.5.3 here. https://github.com/iotaledgeiri/releases/tag/v1.5.3 domYesterday at 4:37 PM Rolf is probably moving on to an even bigger opportunity (maybe even a DAX company). Ralf is still 100% committed to IOTA and is part of the Foundation. once we can share more, we will tell you guys :smiley: Maybe Rolf himself will come on discord. domYesterday at 4:39 PM [And your work with VW is still intact?] of course same with Fujitsu domYesterday at 4:39 PM we are still working with them on Industry 4.0 related topics. We are in touch with several different departments there domYesterday at 4:58 PM [.rolf has been instrumental & a great advocate for IOTA would be a shame to lose such a visionary.] we are not losing him at all :smiley: [has Oliver bussmann left the foundation??] yes, we no longer work with Oliver [–]domschDominik Schiener - Co-founder of IOTA 32 점 1 일 전에 We will have an update on the data marketplace very soon :)
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